90072 Report on Qualitative Study of the Adolescent Girls Initiative in South Sudan Insight and lessons learned from June 2010-June 2013 1st November 2013 Submitted to World Bank Report on Qualitative Study of the Adolescent Girls Initiative in South Sudan Insight and lessons learned from June 2010-June 2013 REPORT Submitted to: World Bank 1st November 2013 Integrity Research and Consultancy Somerset House, West Wing Strand London, WC2R 1LA T +44 (0) 207 759 1119 E info@integrityresearch.com W www.integrityresearch.com       Acknowledgement This report has been written by Esther Jurgens, Mabel Isolio, Christine Jadi, Lona Elia and quality assured by Dr James Khalil and Martine Zeuthen. For further information please contact: Melyn McKay melyn.mckay@integrityresearch.com. Legal Notice and Disclaimer © 2013 Integrity Research and Consultancy – all rights reserved. All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, without prior permission in writing from Integrity Research and Consultancy. This report is not a legally binding document. It is a collaborative informational, assessment and forecasting document, and as such does not necessarily reflect the views of each of the contributing partners in all of its content. Any errors are the sole responsibility of the authors. www.integrityresearch.com 1       Table of Contents 1. Introduction .............................................................................................................. 6 2. Background ............................................................................................................. 8 2.1 Situational Analysis ............................................................................................ 8 2.2 The Adolescent Girls Initiative in South Sudan .................................................. 9 3.1 Objectives ........................................................................................................ 12 3.2 Research Methods ........................................................................................... 13 3.3 Limitations ........................................................................................................ 15 4. Findings ................................................................................................................. 17 4.1 The Wider Context ........................................................................................... 17 4.2 The Six Components ....................................................................................... 17 4.2.1. Safe Spaces ............................................................................................... 18 4.2.2. Life Skills Training ...................................................................................... 21 4.2.3. Livelihood Training ..................................................................................... 24 4.2.4. Financial Literacy Training ......................................................................... 27 4.2.5. Savings and Credit Services ...................................................................... 28 4.2.6. Community Sensitisation............................................................................ 32 4.3. Programme Delivery Modalities ...................................................................... 34 5. Findings and Recommendations ........................................................................... 37 5.1 Findings ........................................................................................................... 37 5.2 Recommendations ........................................................................................... 38 Annex A: FGD Overview ........................................................................................... 39 Annex B: KII Overview .............................................................................................. 40 Annex C: Research Tools ......................................................................................... 41 Annex D: Interview Transcriptions ............................................................................. 61                   www.integrityresearch.com 2       Acronyms   AGI Adolescent Girls Initiative ALT Adolescent Leader Training BRAC BRAC is now a brand name and formerly stood for Bangladesh Rural Advancement Committee and started as Bangladesh Rehabilitation Assistance Committee CEDAW Convention on Elimination of all forms of Discrimination Against Women CMC Community Management Committee CO Community Organiser CRC Convention on the Rights of the Child DAC OECD Development Assistance Committee DFID The UK Department for International Development FGD Focus Group Discussion FLT Financial Literacy Training FP Family Planning GAP (World Bank’s) Gender Action Plan GBV Gender Based Violence GMR Global Monitoring Report IMR Infant Mortality Rate KII Key Informant Interview LLD Lifeline Diagram LSK Life Skills Training LT Livelihood Training M&E Monitoring and Evaluation MF Microfinance OECD Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development PRMGE Poverty Reduction and Economic Management – Gender and Development SLF Sustainable Livelihoods Framework SRHR Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights STI Sexually Transmitted Diseases TCSS Transitional Constitution of South Sudan UNDP United Nations Development Programme UNESCO United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization UNICEF United Nations Children’s Fund WB World Bank                     www.integrityresearch.com 3       Executive Summary This report presents findings from a qualitative study conducted in May and June 2013 on the Adolescent Girls Initiative (AGI) Programme piloted in South Sudan between June 2010 and June 2013. The specific objectives of this study were: • To generate lessons learned on AGI in South Sudan; • To provide insight on policy options for improving young women’s voice and agency in a conflict setting. The fieldwork took place in Yei, Torit and Juba and consisted of Focus Group Discussions (FGDs) and Key Informant Interviews (KIIs) with relevant stakeholders, including AGI members, non-participants, parents, husbands, boys and girls/young women in the communities visited.1 This report contains detailed findings on the six AGI programme components: • Safe spaces; • Life skills training; • Livelihood training; • Financial literacy training; • Savings and credit services; and • Community sensitisation. Through the lens of ‘empowerment,’ ‘voice’ and ‘agency,’ the findings focus on each of these components in turn, delivering insights into enabling factors, hindering factors and impact. A key finding was that as a result of the AGI programme many girls claimed that they now felt confident to talk about family planning, asserting that their improved knowledge on this issue has influenced their own voice and agency. As expressed by participant in a FGD with a Mother’s Forum in Yei, ‘girls learned how to protect themselves, [and] they now can avoid getting pregnant.’ Increased agency also occurred as a result of the savings and credit services, for instance, with a participant with a small business observing that ‘I now can plan, and budget. This money is for school and this is for the business, it really helped me to plan.’ The majority of AGI members with a loan similarly asserted that they were now able to                                                                                                                 1 Elevated levels of insecurity disrupted initial plans to also conduct research in Bor. 2 BRAC (2013). AGI Comprehensive report 2010-2012 www.integrityresearch.com 4 make decisions on the business by themselves, and they felt empowered to be in charge of their own endeavours. Yet, such changes must be understood in the light of South Sudan being a society with very ‘traditional’ gender roles, and the noted improvements in empowerment, voice and agency commonly came with substantial caveats. For instance, while girls reported increased financial independence as a result of AGI, during the research references were often made to savings put aside in boxes that were kept hidden from their husbands. This new financial role played by many women generally did not decrease the extent to which they remained responsible for domestic chores. A FGD participant in Yei indicated that her newfound sense of empowerment resulted in her demanding that her husband takes a test for HIV after having an affair with another woman, rather than preventing this infidelity in the first place. Similarly, AGI participants in a FGD in Juba reported that through the forum of their safe space club they advised a particular girl to stop ‘speaking up’ to her husband as a means to prevent her experiencing physical violence, rather than seeking to alter the power balance that allows for such abuse. The report is structured so that it presents the findings in a logical manner by both highlighting lessons from the AGI programme as well as voice and agency of the adolescent girls more widely. The initial section provides an introduction to the AGI programme, and this is followed in Section Two by contextual information on gender in South Sudan, and more detail on the aims of the AGI initiative. Section Three focuses upon research methods and the limitations to qualitative studies of this nature. The findings are presented in Section Four, with information for each component broken down into Objectives, General Findings, Enabling Factors, Hindering Factors and Impact. As per the Terms of Reference, this is followed by a subsection on Programme Delivery Modalities. This is followed by Section Five on Findings and Recommendations, with the former presented in terms of five components of ‘agency;’ (a) control over resources, (b) ability to move freely, (c) decision making over family formation, (d) freedom from the risk of violence and (e) ability to have a voice in society and influence policy. www.integrityresearch.com 5 1. Introduction AGI was launched in October 2008 as part of the World Bank Group’s Gender Action Plan (GAP). Originally planned as a three-year initiative, AGI was extended to 2015 to allow for the completion of activities and the compilation of lessons learned.2 The programme is being piloted in eight low-income countries (Afghanistan, Jordan, Lao PDR, Liberia, Haiti, Nepal, Rwanda and South Sudan) and currently reaches some 17,000 girls. Each programme is individually tailored to the country context, with a common goal of discovering what works best to help adolescent girls and young women succeed in the labour market. Interventions range from business development to technical and vocational training targeting skills in high demand and all projects include life skills training. 3 Box One: The Concept of Agency The concept of agency, as understood by the World Bank, focuses upon an individual’s ability to make effective choices and to transform those choices into desired outcomes. Agency can be understood as the process through which individuals use their endowments and take advantage of economic opportunities to achieve desired outcomes.” As such, agency is critical to understanding how gender outcomes emerge. These outcomes, or expressions of agency, are: • Control over resources – measured by women’s ability to earn and control income and to own, use, and dispose of material assets. • Ability to move freely – measured by women’s freedom to decide their movements and their ability to move outside their homes. • Decision making over family formation – measured by women’s and girls’ ability to decide when and whom to marry, when and how many children to have, and when to leave a marriage. • Freedom from the risk of violence – measured by the prevalence of domestic violence and other forms of sexual, physical, or emotional violence. • Ability to have a voice in society and influence policy – measured by participation and representation in formal politics and engagement in collective action and associations. 2 BRAC (2013). AGI Comprehensive report 2010-2012 3 World Bank (2012) World Development Report www.integrityresearch.com 6 In South Sudan AGI was designed and implemented after 2009 with financial and technical support from the World Bank and field implementation by BRAC South Sudan. 4 The focus of the project is on girls’ social and financial empowerment, enabling them to be confident citizens and to lead dignified and productive lives within their communities.5 This report presents findings from research undertaken between May and June 2013 in Juba, Yei and Torit, with the findings intended to complement the rigorous impact evaluation of the pilot programme. 6 This study findings presented in this report aim to capture the qualitative expression of programmatic effects with respect to empowerment, voice and agency (see Box One). 4 The total project amount is around 1.7 Million USD, funded by the multi-donor trust fund for the economic empowerment of adolescent girls and young women. BRAC South Sudan is a development agency with its office at Juba and has been actively working in South Sudan since 2006 in education, health and micro-finance activities. BRAC has extensive community presence and experience of work directly with households. 5 BRAC (undated), Fact Sheet, Excerpts from Midline Tracer Survey of Adolescent Girls Initiative Evaluation in South Sudan 6 A baseline was conducted in August-November 2010 and the endline research is planned for 2013. www.integrityresearch.com 7       2. Background 2.1 Situational Analysis Decades of war have had an impact on South Sudanese society. Building the state is a priority, as are expanding social and infrastructural services and economic development. The population is very young, with almost three-quarters under the age of 30, and more than 51 per cent below the age of eighteen.7 It is also largely rural, with 83 per cent residing outside of urban areas.8 Geographically large, the country is sparsely populated, with current population estimates ranging between eight and 14 million. Almost 80 per cent of the households depend on crop farming or animal husbandry as their primary source of livelihood. It is the most oil dependent country in the world, with this resource accounting for almost the totality of exports and for around 80 per cent of gross domestic product. 9 Development indicators consistently place South Sudan amongst the lowest ranking countries:10 • More than 90 per cent of the population lives on less than one dollar a day; • Close to 30 per cent of the population above 15 years old is illiterate; • The infant mortality rate is 105/1,000 live-births; • The maternal mortality ratio is 2,054 per 100,000 live-births; • Only 17 per cent of children are fully immunised; • Close to 40 per cent of the population has to walk 30+ minutes to fetch water; • 80 per cent of the population does not have access to toilet facilities. Gender inequities have many manifestations. A girl in South Sudan is three times more likely to die during pregnancy or childbirth than to reach grade eight.11 Many women face a double burden, as a drastic reduction in the male population due to the conflict has provided them with additional responsibilities, including assuming economic responsibility for their families.12 Gender inequalities are also apparent in access to education (see Box Two).                                                                                                                 7 http://ssnbs.org/ http://ssnbs.org/   8 9 http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/southsudan/overview 10 http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/southsudan/overview 11 UNESCO (2011), Building a Better Future, Education for All Global Monitoring Report Policy Paper. 12 BRAC (2013). AGI Comprehensive report 2010-2012 www.integrityresearch.com 8       13 Box Two: Education in South Sudan • Despite a rapid expansion in primary education since independence, in excess of 1.3 million primary school age children are out of school. • South Sudan stands second-to-bottom in the world ranking for net enrolment in primary education and bottom of the world table for enrolment in secondary education. • The primary completion rate is 13.7 per cent for boys and 6.2 per cent for girls. • Girls are both less likely to enter school and more likely to drop out and there are just 400 in the last grade of secondary education. • The ratio of pupils to qualified teachers averages 100:1, but is double in some states. • 12 per cent of teachers are female. Parents commonly arrange for their daughters to marry early as they regard young girls to be an economic burden. Indeed, some 45 per cent of girls marry below the age of 18, despite a law regulating the minimum age. In many instances the ‘bride price’ makes daughters one of the only realistic sources of income in a location where the average citizen lives on approximately 25 cents a day. In addition, a common perception is that early marriage protects girls from the dangers of sexual assault and secures the care of a male guardian. It is in this context that AGI was introduced in South Sudan, building foundations for girls’ education and empowerment, based on the needs on the ground as identified during the baseline survey. 2.2 The Adolescent Girls Initiative in South Sudan AGI in South Sudan follows the development and operational aims of the Global Initiative of the World Bank, with an objective of socially and financially empowering adolescent girls and young women aged 15 to 24. The programme is being implemented in the states of Central Equatoria, Eastern Equatoria, Jonglei and Lakes through five BRAC Area Offices in Juba, Yei, Torit, Bor and Rumbek (see Figure One). To achieve this aim AGI was designed to:14   • Provide participants with a secure place for recreation, socialisation and learning;                                                                                                                 13 UNESCO (2011), Building a Better Future, Education for All Global Monitoring Report Policy Paper. 14 BRAC (2013). AGI Comprehensive report 2010-2012 www.integrityresearch.com 9       • Enhance participants’ access to economic opportunities, income earning ability and financial autonomy by providing relevant livelihood training, financial literacy training and links to savings and credit services; • Increase awareness among participants of basic and reproductive health issues, including HIV/AIDS; • Develop leadership qualities among the girls and help build confidence; and, • Increase adolescent girls and young women’s active participation in families and society. Figure One: Project implemented areas in South Sudan   At the programme level AGI aims to:15 • Raise awareness of the need for economic empowerment of adolescent girls, both inside and outside the Bank; • Strengthen the evidence and knowledge about the forms of intervention that successfully ease the transition of adolescent girls and young women from school to work; • Foster cross-country learning and knowledge exchange; and, • Set the stage for scale up and replication of successful pilot projects.                                                                                                                 15 BRAC (2012), AGI Third Quarterly Progress Report www.integrityresearch.com 10       As stipulated in programme documentation, the pilot is composed of the following elements: • Safe Place for Adolescent Girls: provides girls with a house which will serve as a club, providing indoor games, a small library etc. where girls can meet six days a week in the afternoon to socialise and learn from each other. • Life Skills Training: provides life skills training to make the girls aware of critical social issues based on sexual and reproductive health as well as issues related to early marriage, gender based violence, drug abuse, etc. • Livelihood Training: offers livelihood training in both agricultural and non- agricultural sectors to the participants. The training will be offered mainly in raising domestic animals, poultry, embroidery, salon activities, nursery, etc. The training will be based on the current trends and also demands of the locality. • Financial Literacy: offers financial literacy training for the participants. This course will allow the girls to get a better understanding of both personal finances and the financial aspects of small businesses. • Savings and Credit Services: orients the girls to attain financial empowerment from an early age. AGI encourages the girls to build up their saving habits. The project will provide them with credit facilities thereby creating a source for the seed capital to a start a small business. The girls will be able to show considerable initiative in improving their status in their families and communities by increasing their income, particularly after a series of loans. • Community Sensitisation: focuses on community sensitisation towards an engendered environment. Empowerment of the girls is easier if the family and community support these initiatives. Keeping this in mind, AGI will form various committees, including a Club Management Committee (CMC), Advisory committee and Parents committee. The primary beneficiaries included 3,000 adolescents between the ages of 15 and 24, with the following profile: (a) willingness to participate in club activities (b) from all levels of education (c) school-going and out-of-school girls (d) married and unmarried (e) with and without children and (f) permanent residents of the villages. www.integrityresearch.com 11       3. Research Objectives and Methods     3.1 Objectives The study aimed to generate lessons and good practices from AGI to improve young women and girls’ voice and status in South Sudan. Specifically, as outlined in the ToR, the study had the following objectives: 1. To generate lessons learned on the Adolescent Girls Initiative in South Sudan, with the following sub-objectives: • To crosscheck and validate project monitoring data and complement survey data from the impact evaluation, with contextualised, in-depth, qualitative information. • To help capture the more qualitative expressions of empowerment, voice and agency that the programme aims to affect. • To gain insight on the mechanisms of change. The South Sudan AGI has several arms of content, including life-skills training, livelihood skills training, financial literacy trainings and a savings and credit component. The qualitative research will aim to shed light on the relative merits of the different arms of content. • To investigate the merits of programme delivery. There are several aspects of programme delivery that are unique across AGI pilots and deserve further investigation. These include (i) BRAC’s training-of-trainers modality; (ii) An apprenticeship/mentorship programme; (iii) Childcare services for beneficiaries who are mothers; (iv) Safe spaces provided through the Adolescent Girl Clubs; and (v) influence of Club Management Committees and Mother’s Forum. • To provide first-hand stories from the field that can be used to disseminate lessons from the programme to a wide array of audiences. • To capture stakeholders’ satisfaction with the programme and their feedback / suggestions for improvement. 2. To provide insight on policy options for improving young women’s voice and agency in a conflict setting. This will provide input to the forthcoming flagship report on voice and agency, being led by PRMGE. Namely, the sub- objectives are: • To shed light on constraints and opportunities for voice and agency among young women living in conflict-affected South Sudan. www.integrityresearch.com 12 • To help conceptualise appropriate frameworks for considering voice and agency among adolescents and youth. • To provide evidence on the merits of an AGI programme for improving voice and agency and as an instrument for addressing and mitigating conflict effects. • To gain insight on the mechanisms of change and the relative merits of the different arms of programme content for improving voice and agency and addressing constraints related to conflict settings. 3.2 Research Methods The work was conducted between May and June 2013 and included: • Inception Phase: The data collection tools and the sampling frame were refined in Juba in collaboration with the World Bank and BRAC and the data collection tools were subsequently pre-tested. • Fieldwork Phase: The fieldwork took place in Juba, Yei and Torit and involved two research teams consisting each of an international and a national consultant. A local translator assisted each team. Elevated levels of violence prevented planned fieldwork in Bor. The selection of AGI clubs proceeded as planned, allowing for a representation of urban/semi-urban/rural clubs. The clubs were also selected to vary in regards to distance from the project office and performance.16 As all clubs were located in rented buildings, each had Community Management and Parents Committees and only a few had moved premises; these potential selection criteria were not applied. The research relied upon a wide range of methods, as outlined in Table One. Table Two shows the number of FGDs and interviews planned/conducted (more comprehensive information is provided in Annex B). Modifications from the initial plan occurred as follows: additional FGD with parents (1) and with husbands (1) were held to take advantage of the opportunities presented in the field and two planned FDGs with non-participants (1) and with boys in Juba (1) did not occur because of logistical constraints. 16 Performance was rated by BRAC following a set of criteria, including levels of achievement, challenges, capacity development and overall performance of the programme. www.integrityresearch.com 13       Table One: Data Collection Methods This involved drawing from background documentation on AGI pilot programme, relevant studies in the area of gender, adolescent girls and livelihood in South Desk Review Sudan, experiences and lessons learned from other pilot countries, documentation from AGI Baseline Survey and BRAC’s programme and M&E reports. The key stakeholders interviewed included selected individuals from the project staff (including the Country Representative, Programme Manager and Education, Training and Job Officers at the BRAC Head Office in Juba and Area Coordinators, Key Informant Community Organisers, Credit Officers and Adolescent Leaders within the Area interviews (KII) Offices), community leaders (e.g. representing the local authorities, police officers and so on), AGI members (forming the case studies provided in this report) and AGI drop-outs. The topic list for the KIIs focused on issues pertaining to programme implementation, as well as the changing local context (see Annex B). The FGD participant groups included AGI members (aged 15-24), non-participants (girls/young women aged 15-24) in AGI areas, parents, husbands, boys/young men Focus Group (aged 15-24) and girls (aged 15-24) in control communities. Each FGD guide Discussions provided a series of open-ended questions designed to elicit basic contextual (FGD) information as well as feedback directly relevant to the specific research objectives (see Annex C). Observations from the fieldwork in Juba, Yei and Torit were used to triangulate and Observations verify information that was gained through other methods. Table Two: KIIs and FGDs Planned Undertaken FGD with AGI members 7 7 FGD with non-participants AGI area 2 1 FGDs with parents 2 3 FGDs with husbands 2 3 FGDs with boys 2 1 FGD with girls / young women in control communities 2 2 Interviews 79 79 www.integrityresearch.com 14       Despite being provided with contact details, the team experienced difficulties in finding girls originally included in the impact study for the purposes of conducting a longitudinal assessment. A number of these potential informants had changed addresses, phone numbers and/or names. Those included in the study were found thanks to extensive efforts from BRAC programme staff. Participation in the FGDs, interviews and case studies was on voluntary basis, with verbal consent given by the participants. The purpose of the study and the use of the information were explained and the respondents were informed of how they could receive feedback on the result. Confidentiality was a guiding principle throughout the project and the information gathered was used anonymously. Data handling The written notes followed the structure of the FGD and interviews. All notes were grouped, summarised after each session / interview, and included in the data files. Recordings were coded and stored, and a subset of these (20 per cent) are transcribed and included in Annex D. Analysis The data was checked for consistency and frequency, specificity, intensity and scope of statements. Analysis was based on the ethnographic method, assessing the responses within a wider context. After familiarisation through readings and team discussions, data was grouped into subcategories by both the five elements of agency (see Box One) and the six components of AGI. Through team discussions quotes were selected and the data from the various sources were triangulated and interpreted, establishing relationships and trends in line with the research questions.   3.3 Limitations The study was undertaken under a number of constraints including a significant time pressure. In addition, researching in South Sudan involves significant challenges around logistics (substantially impacting upon the amount of time available for the research), language and generating trust with both interviewees and focus group participants. In particular we find it necessary to highlight the following key points: www.integrityresearch.com 15       • The range of topics covered was broad, and in undertaking this research it was necessary to recognise that it was not possible to delve into the ideal level of detail in the interests of keeping each of the interviews and FGD to a reasonable length (i.e. avoiding ‘respondent fatigue’). At a wide level, the limited amount of time in the field also undermined the ability to generate additional nuance. • Due to resource constraints it was only possible to record and transcribe a limited number of the interviews and FGD, as agreed with the client. Thus, the quotes provided in this report are drawn from this limited subsample. Of course, the wider trends identified and the case study examples come from the entire set of interviews and FGD. • Research into subtle and complex concepts such as ‘empowerment,’ ‘voice’ and ‘agency’ in the girl’s own terms is an ambitious research objective ideally requiring an anthropological approach that involves field researchers being embedded within communities for extended period, rather than a short-term qualitative study. The research team collected data according to the interview guides that were discussed with the World Bank team in advance of the field visits. These three concepts arose frequently and our researchers asked the participants to elaborate upon them on such occasions. This is reflected in the report, and as such we believe that this study meets the ToR requirement to ‘To help capture the more qualitative expressions of empowerment, voice and agency that the program aims to impact.’ • BRAC helped facilitate visits to communities and clubs, as agreed. However, in retrospect (and budgetary and time constraints permitting) it would have been preferable to achieve these introductions independently as an extra guarantee against potential partiality in the research. www.integrityresearch.com 16       4. Findings 4.1 The Wider Context AGI is a World Bank programme aiming to empower girls and young women in eight countries. In Africa, AGI has already been successfully implemented in Uganda and Tanzania, where it is locally known as Empowerment and Livelihoods of Adolescents (ELA). Literature on adolescent girls in Uganda and findings from the BRAC baseline survey in South Sudan indicate that violence against girls and women is directly linked to economic vulnerability. In turn, this vulnerability enables exploitation by family members, employers and others in the community. Information from the Economic Empowerment of Adolescent Girls and Young Women (EPAG) project in Liberia emphasises that in various parts of the world adolescent girls face discrimination and exploitation simply because they are young and female. Most of these girls do not enjoy basic human rights, including: • The right to self-determination including to be free from violence; • The right to education; • The right to inherit land; • The right to decide when and whether to marry. AGI’s premise is that when girls are empowered they transform structures of poverty and inequity and this has a positive impact on both their own lives and those of the wider communities. 4.2 The Six Components This section provides an overview of the findings addressing the six components of AGI in South Sudan. For each component an overall assessment is given, detailing: • Objectives • General Observations • Enabling Factors • Hindering Factors • Impact www.integrityresearch.com 17       4.2.1. Safe Spaces Objective Provide girls with a house that will serve as a club, providing indoor games, a small library etc. where girls socialise and learn from each other. General Observations As described in the AGI Learning from Practice series, ‘Girls are often socially isolated, [and] AGI has the potential to create opportunities to have fun and socialise, building good group dynamics and trust among trainees.’17 All 100 AGI clubs were established according to programme plans and these operate five days a week (not six as initially planned) from 4pm to 6pm. The clubs are located in rented buildings, of which the majority are stick-and-mud, similar to neighbouring buildings. The research team visited 17 AGI Clubs that appeared to be in relatively good physical and sanitary condition. Most were located in close vicinity to local BRAC offices, ranging between 200 metres and 14 kilometres. A minority of the clubs had moved location since their initial establishment, mainly as the space was needed for other purposes or because the building was damaged. A majority of the clubs visited did not have a signboard indicating the purpose of the building. Most were equipped with basic sitting arrangements and games. Despite the fact that all had received reading materials, none had a library. Even though most clubs had been equipped with indoor and outdoor exercise materials, in the majority of locations not all of these items remained in place. A number of key informants, including adolescent leaders and community organisers in Yei and Torit, indicated that only a first batch of materials was provided at the initiation of the club in 2010 and that missing or broken materials had not been replaced during the course of project implementation. Enabling Factors The close vicinity of the club to the community helped to ensure easy access and enhanced the participation rate. The provision of education and sports materials also increased the attractiveness of the initiative. Community support is seen as one of                                                                                                                 17 The World Bank (2012), How to Make Youth Employment Programs “Girl-Friendly,” AGI Learning from Practice Series www.integrityresearch.com 18       the building blocks for having a safe space for girls. The importance of community support was communicated on numerous occasions, such as during the FGD with members of the Mother’s Forum in Yei, when participants expressed their interest in maintaining a safe space (see Box Three). Box Three: Support of Clubs (full transcriptions in Annex D) From “Transcription of Focus Group- Yei Adol Leaders” “They [the parents] are appreciating the effort of BRAC because when the system came… the chief was informed about what was going on and they were told the activities that is going to be run out so the parents were concerned and they knew that they were coming for something positive in their lifestyles so they were appreciative. There’s nothing like restriction from the side of the parents because the chief in fact knows what is going on so the parents were well informed. From “Transcription of 130522 Torit BRAC – Credit officer_009” “When they [the girls] got the training and when they got the microfinance, we saw that their life was improved. How they are able to give medication to their children, out of the little they had. Then also paying school for their young ones and are able to support themselves and fulfilling their basic needs.” “…The community members around the community, their lives have actually completely changed… The children used to go and look for food outside, the parents had no way of getting money to feed them in the house. So when we gave them the training and they are getting microfinance, the children became stable, they are able to stay at home. No more loitering around the community. So that's one of the most important things I saw from the microfinance.” From “Transcription of Torit BRAC trainer_008” “…I think the community is there strongly supporting what BRAC is doing in their community.” Hindering Factors Interviews with AGI members and adolescent leaders revealed that the opportunity costs for participation are relatively high, as many combined this with daily chores such as cooking, cleaning, caring for children, fetching water and so on. It had obliged them to manage their time better in order to attend the trainings. This observation was made in particular by girls still attending schools, married women and those with children. The initial idea to include childcare services was not established in South Sudan, meaning that mothers brought children to the clubs or left them in the care of others while attending trainings. www.integrityresearch.com 19       There are also potential issues with regard to sustainability given that renting the club space is costly and as the existing model (i.e. renting of buildings) did not encourage strong community ownership. Considering ways to overcome this issue, a participant from the FGD Mothers’ Forum in Yei suggested that ‘the community could provide the land, and other interested parties would complement with providing materials.’ Impact When asked why they benefited from the club, the most common responses given by the girls were that it provided a safe location to meet, a ‘sense of belonging,’ and a place they associate with friendships and fun. Observations made during the fieldwork also demonstrated that the girls used the space, especially the outdoor facilities, to meet, dance and play sports. An adolescent respondent from Torit noted the benefits of a set place she could ‘go to on a daily basis, that for sure you know would be there,’ as other meeting spaces are often provisional. The vast majority of AGI members and people in their direct environment (parents, husbands) perceive the clubs as convenient meeting place that allow the members to socialise. The high participation levels in the indoor and outdoor activities of AGI clubs illustrate enthusiasm and support for the initiative. Box Four: Lessons learned on enhancing gender equality AGI in South Sudan is implemented in a society with deeply rooted and persisting cultural and gender stereotypes associated with what is good for girls or boys, particularly in terms of schooling, household chores and job options, among others. AGI has been able to create dialogue around these beliefs by providing opportunities to earn income and alternative thinking on schooling. As may have thus been expected, AGI experienced challenges in creating or maintaining a gender balance. For example, FGD participants commented that men fear losing their ‘manhood’ as their wives become independent and are empowered. AGI brought to the forefront these dynamics at the household and societal levels and clearly underlined the crucial role programme staff play in the case of domestic quarrels over girls’ participation in the programme. Beyond the importance of the implementers’ ability to address the unintended consequences of AGI, the research identified value in the sensitisation activities (such as role plays) and community mobilisation around International Women’s Day as it promoted the development of positive role models – such as adolescent leaders who have demonstrated a capacity to overcome hardship or trainers – who then served as respected intermediates and as positive examples to the girls. www.integrityresearch.com 20       BRAC clubs provide girls with ‘a place of their own’ where they can meet on a daily basis. The notion of ‘free time’ is an unfamiliar concept to many adolescents and young people, especially girls, as they are required to assist with chores such as fetching water, cooking, minding siblings and so on. When asked about gatherings prior to AGI club, the most common places for girls to meet would be the church, or to take part in community meetings around life events such as marriages and funerals. While some girls mentioned organising meetings in houses, the common grounds for gathering are predominantly around events, which mobilise all community members, i.e. not specifically girls. As such it was evident how the club were adding value in the girls’ lives.   4.2.2. Life Skills Training Objective Provide life skills training to make the girls aware of critical social issues based on sexual and reproductive health as well as issues related to early marriage, gender based violence, drug abuse, etc. Box Five: Perceived Value of Life Skills Training Yei, FGD with AGI members: “We were trained how to take care of ourselves and at the home, and about family planning like child spacing and discussing this with the husband at home. Also on how to go about hygiene … These trainings helped to improve us, life skills was important because before BRAC we had little information, only from the churches … It is important, as we talk a lot about how to avoid early pregnancy, diseases like AIDS, and other STDs.” Yei, FGD with AGI members: “Early pregnancy and early marriages, reduction of domestic violence, all areas where we see differences with the areas where the programme is not running. We now know how to avoid pregnancy, and the rate has reduced, we can also see changes in the homes, how we can take better care of the family.” Yei, FGD with Adolescent leaders: “Life skills was really helpful in the community, because things that happened before like early marriage, which is not happening that much anymore.” Yei, FGD with Adolescent leaders: “Marrying young is seen as a way out of poverty (especially those who are orphans), or sometimes it is the parents that are forcing the girls to marry because of financial reasons. They force you to get a spouse. Now this situation is slowly improving, because of the programme.” Yei, FGD with Mother’s Forum: “Girls learned how to protect themselves: they now can avoid getting pregnant.” www.integrityresearch.com 21       General Findings Within this component the community organisers, adolescent leaders and members were trained on themes such as early marriage, family planning, HIV / AIDS, hygiene, menstruation and menstrual disorder, empowerment, decision-making and communication skills. The idea of providing boys with life skills (and also livelihood training) was commonly suggested during interviews and FGDs with girl participants, boys, parents and husbands. It was also reported that certain tensions existed between girls and boys on this basis that the AGI training provided the perception of favouritism. Many also emphasised that working with the young men to understand the training could have increased their interest and support for the work with the girls, and could possibly have contributed positively to achieving the programme goals. While some favoured mixed training for boys and girls, others preferred the idea of separating the genders on the basis that the inclusion of boys would be disruptive. As argued by a participant in a FGD with Community Organisers in Yei, referring to a hypothetical situation of mixed training, ‘the girls would not share their problems, when boys would be there.’ Enabling Factors The fact that the training was given by peers (i.e. adolescent leaders) enhanced the young girls’ receptiveness to the information. It was also widely reported by the participants in the FGDs with AGI members in all three field locations that the information was comprehendible and that appropriate means of communication (role-plays, etc.) were used. Hindering Factors The poverty experienced by the girls was acknowledged by FGD participants and interviewees in all sites as a substantial hindrance in that it meant that they had a wide range of time-consuming responsibilities, thus limiting their ability to attend the training. In addition it was reported that they were not always able to afford the necessary materials. For instance, a girl from Juba reported that she did not have access to sanitary towels, soap and clean water. Language also proved to be a something of barrier as it was often mentioned that the materials (e.g. books, flip charts) are in English. www.integrityresearch.com 22       Impact The majority of the adolescent members were explicit about the effect of the life skills training (see Box Five), reporting that they perceived positive changes in terms of empowerment and agency. For instance, girls claimed that they felt confident to talk about family planning, asserting that improved knowledge on this issue has influenced their own practice. A participant at a FGD with CMC in Yei claimed that ‘before the programme there was early pregnancy, [but] now the adolescent leaders and the girls go into the community and talk about these issues, and now this has become rare.’ Yet this empowerment comes with caveats at least in certain cases, such as reported in a FGD with AGI members in Juba where it was maintained that girls cannot discuss such issues with men, but rather elect to ‘get sick’ around their fertile days. The effect is also apparent in the reported increased levels of confidence to openly discuss sensitive issues and enhanced decision-making ability of AGI girls, for instance, regarding safe motherhood and sexual and reproductive health. A number of girls specifically indicated that they would not get married unless the man had been tested for STIs. The effect of the life skills training is also evident as AGI members reported to have experienced improvements in their self-confidence to participate and share problems with peers or talk about sensitive issues such as dowry and early pregnancy. This finding was consistent across all FGD with AGI members, and confirmed during the interviews with the community organisers and adolescent leaders. Many parents embraced AGI initiative as they have witnessed improvements in terms of personal growth and development of their daughters. Certain parents also mentioned that girls were able to better take care of themselves. However, as a community organiser in Yei indicated that ‘behavioural changes is a slow process, which requires a multi-faceted approach in providing information, it [also] requires access to resources such as family planning, and moreover an enabling and supporting environment.’ The idea of additionally offering life skills training to boys must also be seen within this context.   www.integrityresearch.com 23       4.2.3. Livelihood Training Objective Provide livelihood training in both agricultural and non-agricultural sectors to the participants. Figure Two: Members Trained and Jobs Created General Findings Ten different types of field-based vocational, agriculture and agro-based training courses were offered to the members based upon demand in local markets (see Figure Two). 18 Some participants suggested that the range of trades should be widened to also include handicrafts, arts, nursing and candle, chalk and soap making. While the girls were generally not asked why they were interested in specific trades (given the need to maintain each interview and focus group at a reasonable length), in the cases where additional information was provided emphasis tended to be placed upon the extent to which these trades were comparatively easy to master,                                                                                                                 18 A livelihood is said to be comprised of ‘the capabilities, assets (including both material and social resources) and activities required for a means of living.’ The UK Department for International Development (DFID) elaborated upon this concept through the Sustainable Livelihoods Framework (SLF) which views livelihoods as systems and provides a way to understand: (1) the assets people draw upon, (2) the strategies they develop to make a living, (3) the context within which a livelihood is developed and (4) those factors that make a livelihood more or less vulnerable to shocks and stresses. (In: IRP/UNDP (undated). Guidance Note on Recovery: Livelihoods) www.integrityresearch.com 24       were lucrative, and allowed the participants time to be with families and fulfil their household responsibilities. An additional issue that arose was a perceived need to also provide education and employment opportunities for boys, with parents in a FGD enquiring ‘what about the boys? Occupational training for boys is very much needed, as there is no school in this area.’ Enabling Factors The livelihood training was adapted to local circumstances, thus greatly enhancing its relevance. A market survey conducted prior to the trainings helped to identify potential employment opportunities, and this was used to design the package. Box Six: Case Study – From Resistance to Support X is an adolescent member who learned about BRAC through the 2010 survey and was one of the first to be selected to join the club. At first her husband was very negative when she told him about the initiative and refused to let her join. She managed however to combine the work she had at home with going to the club and ensured that she would be back before her husband came home from work. While her husband was away in Juba, she completed the trainings. With the materials given she started her own small business in tailoring. Her husband’s sentiment toward her participation became more positive when he saw that she was able to bring money back home. He now fully supports her in going to the club and in running her business. Hindering Factors Many AGI members considered the short duration of the trainings to be a hindering factor, particularly regarding tailoring and salon. As expressed by an adolescent girl in Yei, following this training they felt only able to ‘make bed-sheets and the like,’ rather than ‘the new African designs or men’s clothes.’ A trainer and employer from Yei also noted that ‘it is challenging, as we have not enough materials (sewing machines), and as an employer I can see that the training the girls receive in tailoring is not long enough.’ It was also regularly observed by various trainers and potential employers that such training is often insufficient as the girls lack the capital to obtain the necessary equipment and tools, a comment that was applicable for instance to training in IT, driving, sewing, and so on. Many of those involved in the driving and computer programmes also maintained that training alone is not enough to master a trade, as daily practice is also needed. Across the programme there were complaints about the agricultural training and in particular about the quality of the seeds and the lack of appropriate materials. www.integrityresearch.com 25       Box Seven: Case Study: An Employers’ Perspective X is a hotel manager who trains members from AGI for a job in the hospitality business. He claims that “Currently they are ten trainees for the duration of four months, four days a week, receiving daily classes–both theoretical and practical. It is rewarding, but a huge challenge. In the first place because the demand for internships is much higher. Secondly, there are communication problems, as girls working in the hotel have to master English. That is actually one of the first things they start with, providing classes in English, as well as teaching them to pay attention to their appearances (…) It was easy to see the changes in them; already after the first days you could see how they took better care of their personal hygiene. Also in the beginning, some of them were shy and hardly smiled. After some weeks though, they felt more relaxed and you could actually see their smiles. (…) Some of the trainees already were identified as potential candidates in case of job openings; therefore we keep in touch with other hotels to keep track of any openings. Fortunately, because there is little formal training in Torit, we will be able to find jobs for quite a number of our trainees. That is great, however, we can only train so much, but eventually the government has to come in with offering more opportunities for young people. (…) Another issue is the labour laws. Under-aged girls are supposed to get an education, so for every under-age girl that applies for a job we need permission from the parents. It is accepted that a girl is working instead of going to school, provided the parents give permission. We do need to put this into context. South Sudan is a tough environment, where girls even marry as young as 12 years old. If such a girl comes to us with a wish to be trained and work rather than being idle in the community, who are we to deny them that opportunity?” A significant minority of husbands opposed the idea of their wives being away from the home so frequently, and this issue was raised in particular with respect to livelihood training. Often in such cases it is under the influence of their families that they oppose the wife participating, as that would mean that their ‘investment’ (in case of dowry being paid for the marriage) would leave the household chores to their husbands. A husband participating in a FGD in Yei remarked that ‘I advise her to plan’ and that ‘she needs to balance between the work at home and outside.’ Indeed, in a minority of cases the husbands’ opposition was the main reason for dropping out of the programme.19                                                                                                                 19 According to BRAC, some 111 girls dropped out of the programme (out of a total of 3,000) and this occurred largely due to external factors such as migration (64 girls), continuation with studies (28), marriage (24), job opportunities (15) and sickness (8). The qualitative study substantiated these trends. The drop outs that were included in the study had left for reasons of continuation with studies, and one because the husband did not support her participation in the programme. BRAC (2013). AGI Comprehensive report 2010-2012 www.integrityresearch.com 26       Impact When questioned about the training in general terms most FGD respondents involved in AGI programme first spoke of the livelihood elements, suggesting its perceived importance. As a result of AGI many participants are now able to successfully earn an income. The ability to financially support their families has a direct effect on household resources and directly empowers girls. As reported by a self-employed woman interviewed in Yei, ‘for me, the training gave me knowledge and power. It helps me to raise myself and take care of the kids. Now I can help others with my knowledge.’ A husband FGD participant similarly asserted that ‘now decision making on use of the income also has become different, as the wife now brings in the money. She brings in money and we see what we do. When she comes with money it also gives her power. If she uses the money for the shop, it will not make me angry.’ 4.2.4. Financial Literacy Training Objective Provide financial literacy training to provide knowledge on personal finances and the financial aspects of small businesses. General Findings A cascade model of Training of Trainers was used to implement the financial literacy training and enabled the delivery of the training on budgeting (e.g. calculating capital, costing items, and so on). Other than the comparatively brief points made in the below subsections, few respondents had specific comments relating to this training component. It is possible that the general lack of responses related to the fact that many of the participants lacked the required levels of English to fully comprehend the training (as discussed immediately below).20 Hindering Factors As participants had different levels of education no uniform picture can be drawn on the utilisation of the training. It appeared that a certain level of literacy was needed to                                                                                                                 20 The lack of responses did not arise due to the failure to comprehend the research questions, as the questions were generally asked in a similar manner to those regarding other components and were not focused upon a more complex theme. www.integrityresearch.com 27       fully understand the content of this module. BRAC staff and volunteers of the programme observed that for those with low education levels it was hard to keep up with this training, as pre-entry basic literacy skills are needed to fully benefit. Impact Before AGI in South Sudan, those AGI members who had been involved in small businesses lacked specific skills in financial literacy. The girls and women did not have a structured way of calculating their capital, profit and losses. The AGI component on financial literacy enabled those with a more advanced understanding of business and English to better manage their finances, hence their business. The training on structured financial literacy has proved useful, though the greatest benefit has been to girls with loans or businesses, as they could directly apply the knowledge. As one participant with a small business selling products at the market observed, ‘I now can plan, and budget. This money is for school and this is for the business, it really helped me to plan, [and] before I did not know anything about it.’ An employed in Juba similarly asserted that ‘loans and training, they both are important. Training helps to empower the girls. Considering the country situation with low education levels and the poor economic situation of many, just giving loans is not enough, they would just use it to make ends meet.’ 4.2.5. Savings and Credit Services Objective Provide saving and credit facilities for financial empowerment of girls to enable them to live an independent and dignified life.   General Findings Despite only starting in late 2012, some 485 loans were provided (as of May 2013) for small business and other income generating activities. Over 80 per cent of AGI members applied for a small business loan.21 A number of adolescent leaders and community organisers asserted that the repayments proved to be an obstacle for some girls. However, the majority of respondents who had loans across the field                                                                                                                 21 BRAC (2013), AGI Comprehensive Report 2010-2012 www.integrityresearch.com 28       locations contradicted this claim. 22 Indeed, three young mothers interviewed simultaneously in Yei, who relied upon AGI financial services and were involved in small business trading products bought in Uganda or selling airtime for mobile phones, specifically stated that repayments did not prove to be an issue (also see Box Eight). Box Eight: Case Study – The Value of a Loan X is 30 years old, has five children and is a member and adolescent leader of an AGI club. Her husband walked out of the marriage. Until the day she was robbed of all goods and all her money she had been a successful businesswoman, buying goods abroad and selling them in South Sudan. When BRAC came and conducted a survey in 2010 to identify adolescent girls, she decided to join. She profited from the trainings and with the grant she received she was able to open a small salon. The business went well and she managed to generate income, which helped her to take better care of the children. Eventually she applied for a series of loans, all of which she was able to pay back in time. Because of her success in managing her business and her supportive attitude, BRAC invited her to join as a trainer. Today she trains six girls over the course of a month, after which they will receive a grant. She is happy with her work, however she has more ambitions and she is hoping to expand her business into opening several salons. She works hard to get her children through education and is dreaming of building her own house. In general the weekly repayment scheme assisted the girls through making it easier to oversee relatively small amounts. The attitudes towards repayments were even more positive in those cases where the family was involved in the business because it enabled the girls to share responsibility with other family members. However, in more than one instance girls reported ways that they prevented their husbands from misusing savings, for example, with an AGI member in Juba putting her husband’s plot as a pledge for the loan. Other respondents reported creative means through which to hide money from their husbands (e.g. burying it in tins in the ground), or revealing only half of the savings to their partners. The CMC in Yei also reported that some girls hide money from their husbands. No firm conclusions can be draw with regard to the extent to which this proved to be an issue given the girls’ understandable reluctance to talk about mistrust for their husbands, and indeed instances of threatened or actual domestic violence were reported as a result of this issue.                                                                                                                 22 These are not necessarily contradictory positions in that it may simply be that the girls selected happened to not be those who found repayments to be an obstacle. Alternatively, the adolescent leaders and community organiser respondents may have been misinformed.     www.integrityresearch.com 29       Box Nine: Case Study – The Value of a Loan (Part Two) X is a young woman of 21 years old, divorced with two children. When she was in primary seven she got pregnant (she ‘produced’ when she was only 15 years old), after which she was sent to stay with the family of the man who got her pregnant. Two years later she got pregnant with the second child and at that the time she started experiencing problems within the marriage. Her husbands’ family sent her back to her parents. Her parents also rejected her because she had dropped out of school and was left with two children. Luckily she was able to stay with a friend who told her about AGI. She joined the club but wanted to leave at first as it was hard because of the children. Somehow her friend convinced her to stay and allowed her to use a part of her family plot. This was a turning point. She began successfully growing tomatoes, which she sold at the local market. Eventually the business progressed, and she applied for a loan to expand her business. From growing tomatoes she moved on to selling second hand clothes, a business she is running with her brother. She has become an example to the other girls and she encourages them to continue with the education. Luckily her relationship with her parents greatly improved as they saw how she progressed. She has decided not to remarry because of fears that a man may cheat her out of her capital and income. She lives alone with her children and still carries the dream to go back to school one day. In the meantime she is building her own house. Enabling Factors AGI in South Sudan builds on BRAC’s experiences with similar initiatives in Uganda, Tanzania and Bangladesh. The fact that BRAC has been working at the grassroots level in education, health and microfinance in South Sudan since 2006 has enabled the implementation of the programme and in particular the savings and credit component. This allowed them to efficiently mount the required administrative and logistical infrastructure. Their knowledge of and direct work within the communities, coupled with their track record in setting up credit and loan services has proven to be of great importance. Hindering factors Administrative procedures delayed loan disbursement processes. Members who claimed not to be interested in a loan noted that they perceived a lack of business opportunities. In addition, research findings indicate that the likelihood of girls taking loans relates to levels of family / husband support, as this reduces the perceived levels of risks. For instance, a Community organiser from Yei stated that ‘in some cases we see that it becomes a family responsibility, which makes it easier to take the loan, and pay back.’ www.integrityresearch.com 30       Box Ten: Case Study – The Value of a Loan (Part Three) AGI member X is twenty years old. Her mother is south Sudanese and father is Ugandan; she lives with her aunt. As an adolescent she became pregnant and today her son is five years old. BRAC was important for her, as she was able to complete the trainings and now has opened a salon. At first when she started her business her husband was happy. That changed however, as one day he came to the salon and destroyed the place, out of jealousy. She went to the police and after a court case he was sent to prison for six months. She took another loan, which enabled her to buy news tools and items. She now feels freed from him and has peace of mind. With the savings from her business she was able to buy land on which she intends to build a house. The earnings from her business enable her to pay school fees, pay back the initial loan and support her family and her parents. She has even opened a bank account. The daily challenges are not over, as electricity costs are high, as is the license for the salon. She has learned from the experience with the previous husband, as she comments, “If someone wants to marry me I will send him to meet my parent first. I don’t want to rush in relationships. It is important for my parents to know what kind of person he is.” Impact Box Eleven: Case Study – The Value of a Loan (Part Four) In a FDG in Juba one participant comment upon the case of her ex-husband, who used to work from a petrol company. The woman had a small shop and provided everything for the man including alcohol and cigarettes. He departed to Khartoum, where he found another wife and forgot about her for a long period. When he returned he got very violent, and so she separated from him and started a business. She claims that she would never go back to the man. BRAC provided essential assistance along her trajectory as they provided a loan through which she improved her business. She is becoming more self-reliant.   Access to credit was limited among the girls prior to the intervention, with less than 10 per cent of those interviewed in the BRAC baseline reportedly having previously borrowed. Many of AGI’s loan recipients have utilised these funds to set up businesses and are now able to save. The majority of AGI members with a loan / small business asserted that they were able to make decisions on the business by themselves, becoming empowered over their own endeavours. This increased agency is apparent in their reported ability to make key decisions, for instance, over the training that they received, how to invest their money, and where to establish their businesses. A savings culture existed prior to AGI intervention (i.e. many www.integrityresearch.com 31       claimed to have savings), and thus the programme’s impact is more in terms of utilising savings through opening bank accounts and so on.   4.2.6. Community Sensitisation Objective Focus on community sensitisation to develop a conducive environment to acquire support from family and community for empowerment of the girl’s initiatives. General Findings In all programme sites supportive Community Management Committees (CMCs) were established. A total of 2,032 CMC meetings and 418 Mothers’ Forums were organised, involving the participation of thousands of individuals. Enabling Factors Testimonies from AGI members, community organisers and parents across the programme locations revealed that the survey that was conducted at the beginning of the programme proved a useful entry point to disseminate information to the communities and gather information on the target group. It also proved to be a valuable means through which to sensitise the community. Programme participants and organisers, and a number of the girls’ mothers also indicated that performances such as role-plays and song and dance sessions also helped to generate interest from the broader community, as well as providing AGI members with a stage to practice their social skills and become more confident in participating in community events. Hindering Factors Overall we found little evidence of sustained community resistance, although discussions with BRAC staff revealed that certain husbands and parents had yet to be convinced of the benefits of the program (for instance, see the information provided above on the interests rates on loans). www.integrityresearch.com 32       Box Twelve: Involving the Community One of BRAC’s Area Managers stated “In the case of some husbands there were challenges, as they asked: Why training, for what? We need our wives to do domestic work, to cook food and look after the family. It was difficult for us, as we needed to interact with them on family business. We [BRAC] increasingly understood that we need to support a balance at the household level, because, if the wife is working and earning an income and the husband is not, this will create problems between them. He may start drinking and make problems for the girl. If we involve them, it will solve problems at many levels, as both will increase their knowledge and can support each other. (…) Another challenge were the boys. There were giving us (BRAC) a headache as they harassed the girls when they were doing outdoors games. Gradually, we came to understand that boys’ involvement is needed, as they too lack information and would benefit from life skills training. If we train the girl to use a condom and the boy doesn’t know why and doesn’t want it, they end up in a fight. That is one of the big problems we are facing”. Impact Box Thirteen: Interviewing drop outs BRAC staff, participants and community members consistently reported that drop-outs are not as much of a problem as is the limitation in enrolment. During the course of the research interviews were conducted with three programme drop-outs. One of these (from Yei) quit the programme on the demand of their husbands, a second one (also from Yei) left as she was unable to enter vocational training in plumbing, and the final individual (from Torit) ceased attending as she felt that the BRAC staff was inflexible regarding the nature of their programmes. Across the programme sites the organisation of events (e.g. debates on women’s rights on International Women’s Day) helped to communicate the needs of girls and young women. Interviews with key stakeholders underlined the role of a positive and encouraging environment in enabling the girls to progress. As BRAC officials and involved staff in the pilot areas pointed out, it was crucial to inform the community on the aim of the programme. Some husbands were apprehensive as they could not immediately see personal benefits and they feared their wives would not be able to combine domestic work with attending trainings and being at the club (also see sections on Livelihoods / Savings and Credit). A greater degree of encouragement was found from the parents (also see Life Skills section) as they were more receptive to the opportunities for education and livelihood. www.integrityresearch.com 33       4.3. Programme Delivery Modalities This section summarises the findings on the modalities used in AGI that have not been discussed at length above. BRAC’s Training-of-Trainers This has been an important tool in reaching many participants in a relatively short period of time. Using the cascade model of training-of-trainers has enabled BRAC to deliver a large number of training courses on life skills and financial literacy to a wide audience. However, certain challenges had to be overcome due to the levels of education and language barriers (most materials were in English). Finding educated adolescent leaders also proved to be difficult, as did engaging long term and quality vocational training institutions. The Apprenticeship / Mentorship Programme While this proved to be a useful instrument in the programme, a major constraint was capacity in trades such as carpentry, joinery, brick-making and welding. Trainers that were identified proved committed and dedicated to supporting trainees. Trainers mention that more advanced training (such as in tailoring) was needed; they also noted the challenges of low literacy in English. Childcare Services for Beneficiaries who are Mothers Most young mothers take their children to the club and trainings, or leave their children in the care of their mothers or other siblings. The programme did envisage childcare services, though no formal day care service was established for AGI programme. According to interviews with BRAC program managers, in the context of South Sudan it is too expensive to build different childcare services for each club. When asked, BRAC claimed to have arranged for breastfeeding to occur in a nearby house though this was not observed at the time of research. Experience during implementation has shown that lack of childcare services did not prevent members from participating, even those with infants. BRAC indicated that it would investigate the establishment of childcare services nearby the club, in a possible scale-up of the programme. www.integrityresearch.com 34       Box Fourteen: A Case Study of Success X is a member of AGI, joining the club in 2007. She is 18 year old and not married. She did not go to school since her parents were not able to send her and did not appreciate the value of education. When she heard about BRAC she became interested and joined with some of her friend who dropped out of school and had a certain level of education. Her objective was to acquire skills that would make her earn income to help her sibling, parents and herself. Immediately after joining the club she was taken through an orientation on BRAC’s vision, mission, objectives and activities. During this period she also attended the indoors activities such as the lodo, chase, dash, reading of stories and sharing of experiences. Since she did not go to school and could not read and write, the only thing she did was to flip through the books and guess some of the storylines through looking at the pictures. This experience helped her realise that she was not the only AGI member who had challenges in life. This became a motivation for her to continue learning, sharing and to stay in attendance. She opted to take training in driving as a mean of livelihood. She claims that this is because this livelihood will suit her better because she talks less, she is polite, and will be committed to her work. She felt that the other livelihood options required someone who has good public relations to attract customers. After she completed her classes, BRAC bought her a driving licence. Unfortunately, it took two years before she got a job despite the fact that she went to Yei to apply for a job. It was BRAC who called her to work with them to enhance her skills. She is very happy and intends to continue as a member of BRAC, even when the World Bank project comes to an end. Now she is able to earn a monthly pay and support her parents and siblings back home in Yei though the salary may not be sufficient and has a confident that things may change one day. Influence of the Club Management Committee and the Mother’s Forum The CMCs were established to oversee the daily functioning of the clubs and served as intermediaries between the clubs and BRAC. They proved a useful channel of communication for complaints, concerns and questions from the participants. For BRAC they were useful to assist with more operational issues of AGI clubs. Initially established to inform the community on AGI and promote parental ‘buy-in’ for their daughter’s participation, the Mother’s Forums now play an important role in bringing issues to the community and offering a platform for debate, discussions and celebrating community events.     www.integrityresearch.com 35       Box Fifteen: A Case Study of Success (Part Two) X is a member of Erap adolescent club and a leader of the club. She is 30 years old and has 5 children, but her husband walked out of the marriage. Before the war she was a ‘big’ business woman, and she used to go to places such as Bunya and Aliwara, to buy khangas, vitenges and other goods to sell in South Sudan. However, on one occasion all of her goods and money were stolen, and so she had to start from scratch. When BRAC came and conducted a survey in 2010 to identify adolescent girls, she decided to join. The first thing they received was a training on life skill focusing on areas such as HIV / AIDS, hygiene and sanitation, family planning, early childhood, pregnancy, and so on.. After the training, they were given grants and she opened a small salon. Through the business she was able to gain income to take care of the children and take them to school. Through the business she was able to take a loan of 500 SSP, which she repaid. She was subsequently able to take a further loan of 1000 SSP. Because of her success she was identified by BRAC as one of their service providers. She is currently given six girls to train for a period of a month, and once they complete the training BRAC gives them grants to start their own business. She’s very happy and is still hoping to expand her business. She hopes that after some time the BRAC team will find her with several salons in Yei as well as a house and that all her children will be educated as a result of the business. www.integrityresearch.com 36       5. Findings and Recommendations It was noted in Box One that there are five expressions of agency, as the World Bank understands this concept. This final section of the report delivers overarching conclusions within this framework, prior to offering key recommendations. 5.1 Findings • Control over resources – Despite resistance from many husbands, the savings and credit services component of AGI gave considerable agency to participants who applied for, and received a loan. Their empowerment is apparent in their ability to make key decisions, for instance, over how to invest their money, and where to establish their businesses. • Ability to move freely – In a society with strict ‘traditional’ rules regarding male control over women’s movements (which are confined to areas close to their homes), the AGI programme positively influenced girls’ ability to move freely. In particular, the girls could visit the safe spaces and engage in community events. • Decision making over family formation – Decisions over family size and child spacing are highly influenced by male preferences in South Sudan. The life skills component of the AGI programme provided girls with information on family planning, and empowered them to discuss these life events with their partners. A consistent finding was that the programme contributed towards a decrease in early pregnancy. • Freedom from the risk of violence – The AGI programme actively attempted to reduce violence by encouraging girls to either walk away from scenarios where force may be used or reporting specific acts of violence. A number of girls asserted that they had started to report such acts. The programme also helped to sensitise girls to ways to avoid potential dangerous situations, such as travelling alone, or taking rides from people unknown to them. • Ability to have a voice in society and influence policy – Moderate gains were witnessed regarding the extent to which girls had a voice in the wider community. These generally related to matters directly concerning the girls themselves or their families, such as reproductive health. www.integrityresearch.com 37       5.2 Recommendations The five specified AGI Objectives and four Programmatic Aims are not couched in the language of voice, agency and empowerment (one use of the term ‘economic empowerment’ aside – see Section Two). Nevertheless, these implicitly represent goals of the project, and progress towards these ends can be enhanced through improvements in project implementation. With this in mind, it is recommended: • Continue and expand the programme: The pilot should be continued in the areas where it already has proven its use, and rolled-out to other regions. Ways should be sought to incorporate parts of the programme (such as the life skills training and the livelihood training) in regular education and vocational schooling. • Expand on training for better results: The duration of certain livelihood trainings should be expanded and different modules should be offered to allow participants to further advance their skills. For instance, it would be possible to offer both basic and advanced training in tailoring. • Age differentiated training: The training should be differentiated for different age groups, for instance, with older girls being targeted for livelihood courses and younger ones for life skills. Offering training to girls below the age of fifteen should also be considered. • Literacy training: Literacy training should be included to allow more participants to benefit from the more advanced courses (i.e. that require elevated literacy), such as financial literacy and livelihood training. • Engage the boys: The programme should be expanded to boys as transforming gender roles involves both sexes. The preferred age group (for life skills) would be younger boys, as they are particularly in need of knowledge regarding life skills, sexual and reproductive health, basic personal hygiene and so on, and older boys for livelihood and vocational training. Engaging boys is likely to positive contribute to other outcomes with regards to voice and agency, as by including them in the programme will provide opportunities to sensitise them on traditional patterns and gender issues, including basic hygiene and health related topics. www.integrityresearch.com 38       Annex A: FGD Overview Girls / Non- AGI Young Participants Members Boys (aged Women in in AGI Areas Parents Husbands (aged 15 to 15 to 24) Control (aged 15 to 24) Areas (aged 24) 15 to 24) Juba FGDs / 3 / 18 - 1/5 1/5 - 1/5 Participants Yei FGDs / 2 / 16 - 1/7 1/5 - 1/3 Participants Torit FGDs / 2 / 16 1/6 1/8 1/4 1/8 - Participants Probability Random sampling Convenience Convenience Convenience sample from based on the sampling Convenience sampling sampling the baseline Sampling membership based on sampling based on based on study sample Method list and / or willingness to willingness to willingness to willingness to (tracked girls members participate. participate. participate. participate. / young present at 24 23 women) the club. Girls / Non- AGI Young Participants Members Boys (aged Women in Area in AGI Areas Parents Husbands (aged 15 to 15 to 24) Control (aged 15 to 24) Areas (aged 24) 15 to 24) Undertaken Undertaken Undertaken Undertaken Undertaken Undertaken Planned Planned Planned Planned Planned Planned Juba 3 3 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 Yei 2 2 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 1 Torit 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 TOTAL 7 7 2 1 2 3 2 3 2 1 2 2                                                                                                                 23 Not all individuals were available at the time set for the FGD, and in a limited number of cases it was necessary to use convenience sampling to ensure that adequate numbers were achieved. 24 Findings girls who were randomly selected from the baseline lists often proved to be problematic, and in such instances convenience sampling was used. www.integrityresearch.com 39       Annex B: KII Overview   Juba Yei Torit Total Comments Undertaken Undertaken Undertaken Undertaken Planned Planned Planned Planned BRAC – project 1 1 - - - - 1 1 - coordinator (HQ) BRAC – AGI Job 1 1 - - - - 1 1 - officer (HQ) Additional interview with a trainer BRAC Trainers 1 1 1 2 1 1 3 4 held in Yei Area coordinators 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 3 - BRAC credit officers 1 2 1 2 1 2 3 6 - Convenience sample. Community 1 3 1 5 1 1 3 9 All 5 community organisers organisers interviewed in Yei. BRAC Adolescent leaders 5 5 5 5 5 5 15 15 - Probability sampling (random sample of four members from the Members of the Club membership list). In Yei the Management 4 3 4 7 4 4 12 14 interview with CMC was a group Committee interview with all members of community. Employers / business 2 2 2 2 2 2 6 6 Convenience sample community Probability sample. Issues were found in a number of cases with this source. For instance, the AGI Drop-outs 2 1 2 1 2 1 6 3 interview with a second drop-out interviews in Yei was planned but the girl was not allowed by her husband STAKEHOLDERS 25 to participate. AGI members case 4 4 4 4 4 4 12 12 Convenience sample. studies Community members 2 2 2 1 2 2 6 6 Convenience sample. TOTAL 25 26 23 30 23 23 71 79                                                                                                                 25 In a previous draft of this report it was incorrectly stated in a text box that only one drop-out was interviewed. www.integrityresearch.com 40 Annex C: Research Tools Questionnaire FGD – AGI girls DEF, May 21 Key data State County Name of club Date Start time Finish time Name of facilitator Name of notes-taker Notes: name of club + FGD category + number of FGD in this category (for example: Hai Dam North+AGI Girls+1) Audio: the file of the recording will have date and time of the interview, make sure you mention at the beginning of the recording the name of AGI club Nr. of participants After the FGD comment on the atmosphere (tense, easy, amicable, etc.) and process (contributions from all participants, easy or hard to get discussion going on, etc.) Introduction Thank you for taking the time to talk with us today. Presentation of team members. We are here to talk with you about your experiences with BRAC / AGI club and your life. We are a team of independent researchers, and we will be visiting BRAC / AGI clubs in the programme areas. We value your opinions, and your contributions to this research. All information will be handled confidential, and anonymously. If you are interested in the research findings you can get in touch with the project officer from BRAC. www.integrityresearch.com 41 Questionnaire FGD – Parents, husbands DEF, May 21 Key data State County Name of club Date Start time Finish time Name of facilitator Name of notes-taker Notes: name of club + FGD category + number of FGD in this category (for example: Hai Dam North+AGI Girls+1) Audio: the file of the recording will have date and time of the interview, make sure you mention at the beginning of the recording the name of AGI club No. of participants After the FGD comment on the atmosphere (tense, easy, amicable, etc.) and process (contributions from all participants, easy or hard to get discussion going on, etc.) Introduction Thank you for taking the time to talk with us today. Presentation of team members. We are here to talk with you about your experiences with the BRAC/AGI club and your life. We are a team of independent researchers, and we will be visiting BRAC/AGI clubs in the programme areas. We value your opinions, and your contributions to this research. All information will be handled confidential, and anonymously. If you are interested in the research findings you can get in touch with the project officer from BRAC. I. GENERAL QUESTIONS • Round of introductions (name, age, work, # children) II. OPPORTUNITIES FOR GIRLS IN THE COMMUNITY, SAFE SPACES Essence of this section: first general question on the programme, after which assessment of the parents/husbands’ perception of the effect of the BRAC programme, aspects of freedom of movement, and safety in the community. • How did you learn about BRAC/AGI programme www.integrityresearch.com 42 • Who decided it would be a good idea to join the BRAC club • How has the BRAC-club/AGI programme affected your daughter/wife (in terms of attitude, behaviour, income, communication skills, plans for the future, etc.) • How has the BRAC-club/AGI programme affected you (in terms of attitude, behaviour, income, communication skills, plans for the future, etc.) • Where did the girls meet before the BRAC-club was here (how has the club made a difference in the lives of the girls) • Why do you think it is important for girls and young women to have places like this • Where do boys and young men go to meet and discuss issues of interest to them • Would a club like this for boys be a good idea (why) • What challenges have you faced because of the involvement of your daughter/wife the BRAC/AGI programme, and how did you overcome these challenges • How would you avoid such challenges in the future • Are there areas where the BRAC-club/AGI programme could improve, do you have suggestions to do so (please explain, and probe for involving boys in the Adolescent Initiative) (freedom of violence) • Is safety a concern in your community • What are the main problems affecting girls and young women in this community • How has the involvement of your daughter/wife in the programme affected your relationship and the safety in the home, in the community (create tensions between parents and daughter, spouses, in the community) • How do you resolve a conflict between you and your daughter/wife II. LIFE SKILLS, EMPOWERMENT (including decision-making, problem solving) Essence of this section: to assess the effect of the BRAC programme on changed life skills and empowerment of their daughters/wives, such as life skills in general, including: levels of decision-making skills at the household level, levels of involvement/participation in the community, and problem-solving capacities. • (all) Who do you think should be responsible for earning the income in the family • (all) Who do think should be responsible for feeding and taking care of the children • (husband) Are you deciding how many children you will have together with your wife • How has your daughter/wife involvement in the BRAC club affected her relationship with you • Do you think the BRAC club has helped you daughter/wife contribute to decision- making at home (how) • What happens when there is a conflict between you and your daughter/wife, how is it resolved III. LIVELIHOODS Essence of this section: to assess the effect of the BRAC programme on the girls’ capacity, skills and opportunities in terms of livelihood (means of securing the basic www.integrityresearch.com 43 necessities; to assess the effect of the trainings, loans and support provided by BRAC; and to ascertain the before/after. • Is your daughter/wife working outside the home (job, not owning own business), and how do you feel about this • What do you consider as a right job for your daughter/wife, which not (probe for unsafe jobs for a girl/young woman) • Has the BRAC club helped your daughter/wife gain skills that are useful in making a living Let’s talk about issues related to sources of and use of money. BRAC teaches girls about earning an income, setting up a business and savings. • Who in your household contributes to the household income • Who’s daughter/wife owns a business and has a loan what are your experiences with it (probe for positive/negative aspects) • How are you involved in her business • Do you have savings, how are they managed • Who decides how the household income is spent • Who decides on how your daughter/wife spends her income/savings • Who decides on (larger) household expenditures IV. ASPIRATIONS FOR THE FUTURE • What are your hopes for your daughter/wife (opportunities, eg jobs, education, expansion of business – take note on the responses of the husbands/boyfriends) • What do you think are your daughter/wife hopes for her future • What do you think is needed for her to achieve her goals (skills, financial/family/peer support, and others) www.integrityresearch.com 44 I. ICEBREAKER • Ask the girls to pair up and introduce each other (use the categories in the personal information sheet below: given name, age, level of education, marital status and # of children. The rest can be filled in before or after the FGD, with information gathered during the session or provided by the adolescent leader/BRAC. Profile of Focus Group Members Given Age Current Highest Marital Children Position Lifeskills Livelihood Grant Loan name status level of status (#) in the HH: completed (which, (Y/N) (Y/N, (work, education parents/# Financial length) how study, to date siblings, literacy much) housewife) alone, w completed partner (Y/N) 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. www.integrityresearch.com 45 II. OPPORTUNITIES FOR GIRLS IN THE COMMUNITY, SAFE SPACES Facilitator introduces this section “Lets talk about the community you live in, and the BRAC/AGI-Club”. (Don’t mention the headings – these are for our own purposes) Essence of this section: to assess the girls’ perception of freedom of movement, and safety in the community). (set of questions on freedom of movement + voice in society) • What are some of the things you like in your community, which ones you don’t • Besides going to BRAC what else do girls do in this community (probe for involvement in other activities) • Where did you go before the BRAC-club was here (how has the club made a difference in the lives of the girls) • Why do you think it is important for girls and young women to have places like this • Where do boys and young men go to meet and discuss issues of interest to them • Would a club like this for boys be a good idea (why, ideas) • How safe is it for you to move around (to school, work, the club, other places, probe what makes them feel safe/unsafe) • How easy is it for you to travel (eg when you need to buy products for your business), and do you need to ask permission (to whom) (set of questions on freedom of violence) • What are some of the things that make you feel stressed • When you worry, what are you worrying about • What do you consider as a safe home • Do you consider your home as safe place (please explain) • What do you consider as a safe community • Is safety a concern in your community (please explain) • Where and when you feel safest (where unsafe) • How has your involvement BRAC/AGI Programme affected your safety in your relationship, in the home, in the community (created tensions between spouses, within the groups members of in the community) II. LIFE SKILLS, EMPOWERMENT (including decision-making, problem solving) Essence of this section: to assess the effect of the BRAC programme on changed life skills and empowerment aspects of the girls, such as life skills in general, including: decision-making skills at the household level, levels of involvement/participation in the community, and problem-solving capacities. Do not only focus on the life skills training only but also on the effects of all elements of the BRAC programme. • What did you like about the training (all trainings), what have you learned you did not know before • Is there anything you did not like about the training, why not www.integrityresearch.com 46 • After going through the training what are you able to do in a different way (probe for life skills, livelihood, financial literacy) • And how different are your feelings or thoughts after having gone through the training (probe for life skills, livelihood, financial literacy) • Questions on decisions in the household/business, for example - How did you meet your husband, and who made the decisions about your marriage - Do you discuss the number of children you will have (husband, family), and who decides - Do you need to ask permission for visiting the health centre, eg for family planning services • When you have a problem, who can you talk to (adolescent leader, peers, teachers…) • When there is a conflict at home / with friends, how do you resolve this • In which way has the programme inspired you to participate more in community activities • How often do you speak in public (before/after BRAC) III. LIVELIHOODS Essence of this section: to assess the effect of the Programme on the girls’ capacity, skills and opportunities regarding livelihood (means of securing the basic necessities); to assess the effect of the trainings, loans and support provided by BRAC; and to ascertain the before/after. (Control over resources) • What did you like about the (livelihood and the financial literacy) training • How did the training help you to get a job/set up your own business (was it sufficient) • Those with their own business, how do you manage the business (keeping track of income, saving behaviour) • Those of you who have a loan, what are your experiences (probe for positive/negative aspects) • How do you make decisions about your work/business (probe for own decision- making capacity) • Do you have money (savings, income) of your own that you alone can decide upon • How does your family, husband/boyfriend, community supports you (in your education, business, job) IV. ASPIRATIONS FOR THE FUTURE (drawing) • Ask the participants to draw a picture of themselves showing what they will be doing 5 years from now. • Have the participants talk about their drawing to the others, and the facilitator start the discussion on how they will plan to make it a reality or what they need to do to get there. www.integrityresearch.com 47 Questionnaire FGD – Boys DEF, May 21 Key data State County Name of club Date Start time Finish time Name of facilitator Name of notes-taker Notes: name of club + FGD category + number of FGD in this category (for example: Hai Dam North+AGI Girls+1) Audio: the file of the recording will have date and time of the interview, make sure you mention at the beginning of the recording the name of AGI club Nr. of participants After the FGD comment on the atmosphere (tense, easy, amicable, etc.) and process (contributions from all participants, easy or hard to get discussion going on, etc.) Introduction Thank you for taking the time to talk with us today. Presentation of team members. We are here to talk with you about your experiences with the BRAC club and your life. We are a team of independent researchers, and we will be visiting AGI clubs in the programme areas. We value your opinions, and your contributions to this research. All information will be handled confidential, and anonymously. If you are interested in the research findings you can get in touch with the project officer from BRAC. I. ICEBREAKER • Ask the boys to pair up and introduce each other (use the categories in the personal information sheet below: given name, age, level of education, occupation status/school, marital status and # of children). II. IMPRESSIONS OF THE COMMUNITY • What are some of the things you like in your community, which ones you don’t www.integrityresearch.com 48 • What are the main responsibilities for boys in the community • What are their main responsibilities at home • What are the main problems for boys in this community • What do you worry about most • Where and when do you feel safest/unsafe III. IMPRESSIONS OF BRAC/AGI CLUB • Do you know about the BRAC club/programme • What do girls/your women do in the BRAC club • Do you think this is a good programme to have in the community (why/why not) • Why do you think it is important for girls and young women to have places like this • Where do boys and young men go to meet and discuss issues of interest to them • Do they have a place like the BRAC club: o If yes, where, what do they do there o If no, Would a club like this for boys be a good idea (why, ideas) • Do you think the programme has changed the girls in your community (in terms of attitude, behaviour, income, communication skills, plans for the future, etc.)? III. OPPORTUNITIES FOR BOYS • What do boys in your community do (school, work, business) • What are good jobs for boys to have (which not so good) • Are there any trainings or programmes available in your community to support boys getting a job/start business • Have you participated, if yes, ask about experiences (completed and content) and why they decided to join. If no, why not IV. ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES / FINANCIAL LITERACY • What are good jobs for girls/young women in this community, which not • What are good jobs for boys/young men in this community, which not • Who do you think should be responsible for earning income for the household • Who do think should be responsible for feeding and taking care of the children • Do you contribute to the family income, and who else in your family • Who decides on how the family income is spent • Who decides on (larger) household expenditures • Do you have savings (joint/separate), and who decides on how to spend them • Have any of you applied for a loan, what are your experiences (positive/negative aspects) • Do anyone of you own a business, what are your experiences • Did your family support you in this, how V. ASPIRATIONS FOR THE FUTURE (drawing) • Ask the participants to draw a picture of themselves showing what they will be doing 5 years from now. www.integrityresearch.com 49 • Then the participants explain the picture to the others, and the facilitator start the discussion on how they will plan to make it a reality or what they need to do to get there. www.integrityresearch.com 50 Questionnaire individual interviews – Drop out AGI girls DEF, May 21 Key data State County Name of club Date Start time Finish time Name of facilitator Name of notes-taker Notes: name of club + FGD category + number of FGD in this category (for example: Hai Dam North+AGI Girls+1) Audio: the file of the recording will have date and time of the interview, make sure you mention at the beginning of the recording the name of AGI club Nr. of participants After the FGD comment on the atmosphere (tense, easy, amicable, etc.) and process (contributions from all participants, easy or hard to get discussion going on, etc.) Introduction Thank you for taking the time to talk with us today. Presentation of team members. We are here to talk with you about your experiences with the BRAC/AGI club and your life. We are a team of independent researchers, and we will be visiting BRAC/AGI clubs in the programme areas. We value your opinions, and your contributions to this research. All information will be handled confidential, and anonymously. If you are interested in the research findings you can get in touch with the project officer from BRAC. I. GENERAL INFORMATION AND REASONS FOR DROP-OUT • Note the personal information • Can you share with me your experiences with the BRAC club/AGI programme • Why did you drop out (main reasons, probe the challenges and whether this was their own independent decision) • What did you like best about the programme, and what not • What did you learn that you never knew before • Is there anything you would want to change about the club/training • What is needed for you to go back to the programme www.integrityresearch.com 51 II. OPPORTUNITIES FOR GIRLS IN THE COMMUNITY, SAFE SPACES Essence of this section: to assess the girls’ perception of freedom of movement, and safety in the community. (set of questions on freedom of movement + voice in society) • What are some of the things you like in your community, which ones you don’t • Why do you think it is important for girls and young women to have places like the BRAC-club • Where do boys and young men go to meet and discuss issues of interest to them • Would a club like this for boys be a good idea (why, ideas) • How easy (safe) is it for you to travel from home to school/work etc. (probe for difficulties in getting permission to travel outside the direct environment, or the actual travelling) (set of questions on freedom of violence) • What are some of the things that make you feel unhappy • When you worry, what are you worrying about • What do you consider as a safe home • Do you consider your home as safe place (please explain) • What do you consider as a safe community • Is safety a concern in your community (please explain) • Where and when you feel safest (where unsafe) • How has your involvement with BRAC/AGI Programme affected your safety in your relationship, in the home, in the community (created tensions between spouses, within the groups members of in the community) II. LIFE SKILLS, EMPOWERMENT (including decision-making, problem solving) Essence of this section: to assess level of life skills and empowerment aspects of the girls, such as life skills in general, including; decision-making skills at the household level, levels of involvement/participation in the community, and problem-solving capacities. • Questions on decisions in the household/business, for example - How did you meet your husband, and who made the decisions about your marriage - Do you discuss the number of children you will have with (husband, family), and who decides - Do you need to ask permission for visiting the health centre, e.g. for family planning services • When you have a problem, who can you talk to (adolescent leader, peers, teachers…) • When there is a conflict at home / with friends, how do you resolve this • In which way has the programme inspired you to participate more in community activities • How often do you speak in public, when and where www.integrityresearch.com 52 III. LIVELIHOODS Essence of this section: to assess the girls’ capacity, skills and opportunities regarding livelihood (means of securing the basic necessities; asses the effect of the trainings, loans and support provided by BRAC; and to ascertain the before/after their involvement in the training). • How do you manage your business (keeping track of income, saving behaviour) • If you have a loan, what are your experiences (probe for positive/negative aspects) • How do you make decisions about your work/business (probe for own decision- making capacity) • Do you have money (savings, income) of your own that you alone can decide upon • How does your family, husband/boyfriend, community supports you (in your education, business, job) IV – ASPIRATIONS FOR THE FUTURE • When we come back in 2 years time, where shall we find you (probe for what she will be doing) • What are your plans for the next 5 years, and what will you do to achieve them www.integrityresearch.com 53 Questionnaire FGD – Girls in the control area DEF, May 21 Key data State County Name of club Date Start time Finish time Name of facilitator Name of notes-taker Notes: name of club + FGD category + number of FGD in this category (for example: Hai Dam North+AGI Girls+1) Audio: the file of the recording will have date and time of the interview, make sure you mention at the beginning of the recording the name of AGI club Nr. of participants After the FGD comment on the atmosphere (tense, easy, amicable, etc.) and process (contributions from all participants, easy or hard to get discussion going on, etc.) Introduction Thank you for taking the time to talk with us today. Presentation of team members. We are here to talk with you about your experiences with the BRAC club and your life. We are a team of independent researchers, and we will be visiting AGI clubs in the programme areas. We value your opinions, and your contributions to this research. All information will be handled confidential, and anonymously. If you are interested in the research findings you can get in touch with the project officer from BRAC. www.integrityresearch.com 54 I – ICEBREAKER • Ask the girls to pair up and introduce each other (use the categories in the personal information sheet below. Profile of Focus Group Members Given name Age Current status Highest level of Marital status Children (#) Position in the (work, study, education to HH: parents/# housewife) date siblings, alone, w partner 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. www.integrityresearch.com 55 II. OPPORTUNITIES FOR GIRLS IN THE COMMUNITY, SAFE SPACES Essence of this section: to assess the girls’ perception of freedom of movement, and safety in the community. (set of questions on freedom of movement + voice in society) • What are some of the things you like in your community, which ones you don’t • Why do you think it is important for girls and young women to have places where they can meet and play • Would a club or a place for girls/young women to meet be a good idea, why • Why would you join such club, why not • Where do boys and young men go to meet and discuss issues of interest to them • Would a club/programme for boys/young men be a good idea, why • How easy (safe) is it for you to travel from home to school/work etc. (probe for difficulties in getting permission to travel outside the direct environment, or the actual travelling) (set of questions on freedom of violence) • What are some of the things that make you feel unhappy • When you worry, what are you worrying about • What do you consider as a safe home • Do you consider your home as safe place (please explain) • What do you consider as a safe community • Is safety a concern in your community (please explain) • Where and when you feel safest (where unsafe) II. LIFE SKILLS, EMPOWERMENT (including decision-making, problem solving) Essence of this section: to assess level of life skills and empowerment aspects of the girls, such as life skills in general, including: decision-making skills at the household level, levels of involvement/participation in the community, and problem-solving capacities. • Questions on decisions in the household, for example - How did you meet your husband, and who made the decisions about your marriage - Do you discuss the number of children you will have with (husband, family), and who decides - Do you need to ask permission for visiting the health centre, e.g. for family planning services • When you have a problem, who can you talk to (adolescent leader, peers, teachers…) • When there is a conflict at home / with friends, how do you resolve this • How often do you speak in public www.integrityresearch.com 56 III. LIVELIHOODS Essence of this section: to assess the girls’ capacity, skills and opportunities in terms of livelihood (means of securing the basic necessities). • How do you manage your business (keeping track of income, saving behaviour) • If you have a loan, what are your experiences (probe for positive/negative aspects) • How do you make decisions about your work/business (probe for own decision- making capacity) • Do you have money (savings, income) of your own that you alone can decide upon • How does your family, husband/boyfriend, community supports you (in your education, business, job) IV – ASPIRATIONS FOR THE FUTURE (drawing) • Ask the participants to draw a picture of themselves showing what they will be doing five years from now. • Have the participants talk about their drawing to the others, and the facilitator start the discussion on how they will plan to make it a reality or what they need to do to get there. www.integrityresearch.com 57 Questionnaire FGD – Girls, non-members DEF, May 21 Key data State County Name of club Date Start time Finish time Name of facilitator Name of notes-taker Notes: name of club + FGD category + number of FGD in this category (for example: Hai Dam North+AGI Girls+1) Audio: the file of the recording will have date and time of the interview, make sure you mention at the beginning of the recording the name of AGI club Nr. of participants After the FGD comment on the atmosphere (tense, easy, amicable, etc.) and process (contributions from all participants, easy or hard to get discussion going on, etc.) www.integrityresearch.com 58 I. ICEBREAKER • Ask the girls to pair up and introduce each other (use the categories in the personal information sheet below). Profile of Focus Group Members Given Age Current status Highest level Marital Children Position in name (work, study, of education status (#) the HH: housewife) to date parents/# siblings, alone, w partner 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. II. OPPORTUNITIES FOR GIRLS IN THE COMMUNITY, SAFE SPACES Essence of this section: to assess the girls’ perception of freedom of movement, and safety in the community. • What are some of the things you like in your community, which ones you don’t • Why do you think it is important for girls and young women to have places like the BRAC-club • Where do boys and young men go to meet and discuss issues of interest to them • Would a club like this for boys be a good idea (why, ideas) • What are some of the things that make you feel unhappy • When you worry, what are you worrying about • What do you consider as a safe home • What do you consider as a safe community • Is safety a concern in your community • How easy (safe) is it for you to travel from home to school/work etc. (probe for permission and safety) www.integrityresearch.com 59 III. LIFE SKILLS, EMPOWERMENT (including decision-making, problem solving) Essence of this section: to assess level of life skills and empowerment aspects of the girls, such as life skills in general, including: level of decision-making skills at the household level, levels of involvement/participation in the community, and problem-solving capacities. • When you have a (big) problem/worry, who can you talk to (adolescent leader, peers, teachers…) • When there is a conflict with your friend/at home, how do you resolve it • In which way has the programme inspired you to participate more in community activities • Questions on decisions in the household/business, for example - How did you meet your husband, and who made the decisions about your marriage - Do you discuss the number of children you will have with (husband, family), and who decides - Do you need to ask permission for visiting the health centre, e.g. for family planning services • How often do you speak in public IV. LIVELIHOODS, FINANCIAL LITERACY Essence of this section: to assess level of skills, capacity and opportunities regarding livelihood, earning money, starting business and level of decision-making skills. • What are good jobs for girls/young women in this community, which not • What are good jobs for boys/young men in this community, which not • Who do you think should be responsible for earning income for the household • Who do think should be responsible for feeding and taking care of the children • Do you contribute to the family income, and who else in your family • Who decides on how the family income is spent • Who decides on (larger) household expenditures • Do you have savings (joint/separate), and who decides on how to spend them • Have any of you applied for a loan, what are your experiences (positive/negative aspects) • Do anyone of you own a business, what are your experiences • Did your family support you V. ASPIRATIONS FOR THE FUTURE (drawing) • Ask the participants to draw a picture of themselves showing what they will be doing 5 years from now. • Then the participants explain the picture to the others, and the facilitator start the discussion on how they will plan to make it a reality or what they need to do to get www.integrityresearch.com 60 Annex D: Interview Transcriptions Focus Group: Yei Girls Dar es Salaam Date: 23 May 2013 I=Interviewer R=Respondent I: Thank you. Now we can start the part where we want talk a little bit about your experiences in the community and your life in the community and also about the club. R: (Unclear). I: Ok we want to talk with you a little bit about the community you are living in and about the club. We are all living in this area? R: They are within. I: They are within this… R2: The whole Dar-es-salaam. I: What are the things you like in this community and maybe there are things you don’t like? R: What they have been explaining before, (unclear) as they started getting trained into many sections like tailoring, agric., those livelihood trainings that improve their lifestyles and financial status, at least they have got some changes from… I: And before the BRAC club was here what were they doing? R: Before they were here, they could not have access to like finance like they got in BRAC, they and (unclear) even messages concerning personal hygienes, most of the things sometimes they get from the churches but only when (BRAC) came that’s when they get exposed to many knowledge of finance, (unclear), personal hygiene, trainings, (unclear), adolescences. I: Maybe some of you, the other ones who are not responding immediately— Why do you think its important for girls and young women to have a place like this? You can mention anything. R: Now because they learn from each other, what they don’t have before now as they are in-group they will get from your colleague. So they do things in teamwork www.integrityresearch.com 61 where you benefit from each other. This is the most important thing that they have got. I: What are some of the things they discuss when they are in a group? R 1: They talk about how to avoid early pregnancy early marriages, how to protect yourself from these deadly diseases like AIDS and many other sexually transmitted diseases. I: OK thank you. When they are discussing problems what kind of problems are they discussing about, when they (unclear) have a worry, what are the things they feel stressed about or worried about? What are they concerned about? What are some of the things that have made them feel stressed. R: For them who are married, their husbands sometimes doesn’t like them to go and do business they just want them to remain at home and do domestic work. This some of the things that really is making them not comfortable. Therefore, you are only to home a house just stay there, housewife. That’s the thing that is making them not to feel fine. It is a stress for them. I: How do they, how do you deal with this? R 1: Yeah like for them…when they have these crops, sometimes they can... merge them, and the husband will see he will also enjoy eating and they will challenge them. That like you refusing sometimes for me to go but now you see this simple work am doing is the one now the family is benefitting. This how sometime now after realising the benefit the husband feel guilt and now can allow them to go on their activities as normal. I: And those who have parents how did the parents respond to them joining the club. Were they supportive? R: Yeah the parents are not feeling bad, they are appreciating the effort of BRAC because when the system came, they were not illegal the message went to the first message went to the chief, the chief was informed about what was going on and they were told the activities that is going to be run out so the parents were concerned and they knew that they were coming for something positive in their lifestyles so they were appreciative. There’s nothing like restriction from the side of the parents because the chief in fact knows what is going on so the parents were well informed. I: Let’s move a bit to the life skills training you received. You talk about family planning and early marriage and early pregnancies. You learn about it but is it www.integrityresearch.com 62 also something you can use in your daily life or how do you use your knowledge you get in these trainings? Is it practical for you? R: Now like the issue or early pregnancy and early marriages as a group now they can see in the areas even where they are not members of this, now the message has gone beyond to the extent that ladies, young girls cannot move anyhow like at night to get this early pregnancy and early marriages now the early marriage and early pregnancy rate had reduced as they can see in the area. Even family this domestic works; ladies have become very active to do things at home. Hygienically, they can make the family very good they can do necessary things (unclear). I: OK so that’s a positive. Are there any experiences? R: Yea they have started getting the loans from 2010. Indeed they were in very bad financial status but as they started the loans and giving in installment… they started getting well financially… Yeah she’s saying from the difficulties they have been facing sometimes back at least they are now relieved and, and they appreciate it that it is God’s gift to them to bring these services closer. I: Let me see the question on decision in the household and business, she was talking of domestic violence was used what are some of the issues you were discussing or some of the causes for these problems at the household, in the house. What kind of (unclear) what were the causes of this dispute? R: She is saying most men like their women to stay at home as house wives not to come out, going outside others mean they are going for other ways of looking for… I: But for example if they have to go out for buying products for the small business, can they go by themselves? R: Most of the disputes are caused because these men are saying when they go like somewhere to buy these things (unclear) they are going, maybe they will mess up there with other men, there’s most are saying that their husband put in their mind I: So has the training helped them in being stronger? In talking to the husband or what kind of, how do they deal with this if the husband is saying you can’t go? R: After the husbands realised they are actually bringing something to the house they begin to let go a little bit, allow them to go because they can see the benefit now. www.integrityresearch.com 63 R2: Now they can, they have the skill they can sit down with their husbands and share ideas together like explaining the benefits of what they are doing and even presenting to them the small earning with the husbands may be when even these disputes arise they sit down as family members and iron it out in a very amicable way. I: But I also want to know if the training helped them to speak up more for themselves, if there was an effect after the training? R: Now they are left free because the husbands can see the benefits of what they are doing. So now they… I: But for example if they want to go to the health center to visit to ask about family planning do they need to ask for permission or they go with their husbands or can they do it themselves? R: She’s saying because they are married and the husband is the person who married them you cannot do anything on your own without asking him the husband who married you with the love to maintain the family if they are going to the hospital or anything to do they have to consult the husband. They tell abcd like they go for this family planning they always confirm R2: I want to take this further. That’s a difficult one. R3: She’s saying like if the heard the husband has another woman outside she heard this woman slept with her and that person is rumoured she has HIV and the man happened to come home that she want to sleep with her will then they agree or not? I: Because their respond is? R: They are saying they will not accept to got to make love and they will ask the urgent to go and check they are not sure of the status of the other wife. That gives you a little bit of … the urgency bit I: Just final question if you have a problem who do you go to? Is your friend or you go to the club or your mother or? R: Whenever they meet here themselves once you have their problems you present to your colleagues the members and from there they advise wherever necessary to make you strong. And when there’s something burning too much tell them they can console you, they console then you find yourself you are relieved. www.integrityresearch.com 64 I: (Unclear)…Where the they belonging to? Any other clubs that they are members? The member of this club or any other club. R: Women Association. R2: There is a place there she has (unclear)… they know about women. She only heard that there is that place women that women go there for an education there but she could not tell exactly. R3: None of them I think is a member of any these clubs. I: Being a member of the club did it make them feel stronger to talk more in public, does it help them, does it help you be outspoken and participate more? R: She’s saying some can now manage to talk in public better present and they can be influential, yea but there are some still they dint catch up but the majority can now do that. The majority can do. I: Let’s talk a little bit more about business, the majority of you is working in tailoring, small business or is also, or has started business. R: They had that thing before BRAC only came and just empowered them. I: It helped them to make a start R: Yea, but they were having the skills before. I: So, What are some of the challenges they have in their business, and what is going well? Maybe they can talk a little bit of what is working really good and what is still a worry or a problem to them in their business. Maybe the ones back there what are they doing, what kind of business you have? R: That one is saying she benefited from BRAC especially now she can manage to plan, like if they have a budget of this, she can save this, she eats this, she use this for school fees she can now budget she don’t use money anyhow. Now that is the benefits she got from BRAC, from the training she can plan for her budget, she has the plan for budget. R2: Before she was really, she dint know anything about it but now she is well of. I: And she is working in tailoring or which business, which service? R: The small business I: In what? R: Selling products in the market I: Maybe you? What kind of business she’s doing? R2: Agriculture www.integrityresearch.com 65 I: Ok tell me about it, how is it, in agriculture? R2: For them, the cabbage, the local called ngete, the greens generally they can still realize some a bit sales. At least it can help the family to eat and have themselves some money to …yea I: And did she learn this from the program or she knew it before? R: She doesn’t have the knowledge before because before if she could be knowing the traditional one. R2: but also her age, Her age does not does not really encourage her to know…if she was a bit old again. The seeds never germinate like the problem (unclear) …they were not well treated I: The ones with the loan. How is it with the loan, do they have problems paying back? Is it wrong or right? R: They effectively pay the loan and can be left with small divided to run the business I: So they have weekly payback to the loan or every month or every two weeks R: Weekly. I: And is not a problem? R: They are used to the weekly remittance I: So that’s it, they discipline themselves? R: Yea they are fine. They are used to the system. I: Then when they have savings, how do they, they have bank accounts or how do they deal with the savings? R: They are saying they just keep it in the house. In the small tins, they keep in the small tins. Yeah, they have this small saving box. I: And they discuss it with the husband how the money is being spent? R: These are the girls for this region, no way for men. (Laughter) I: And the men don’t think about it? R: She said they keep asking but they say this is the only money; the one we have eaten is the only money. I: OK in what way is the husband supportive to your business? Does he help you with buying the products or selling in the shop? R: They don’t support with money, they can go and do it. Others not all. There are some of them are good and some who are... yea it depends on what kind of www.integrityresearch.com 66 husband. But the husbands of this place are very proud and…they only discuss among themselves either from this BRAC office with the other one, with the local people. I: Why? R2: Before they didn’t’ get it there. They say they share with the local people. Like when they say do they get the seats? They say they get it from BRAC. How do you get these? Maybe the business skills who gives you the loans that’s when they tell the public, people who are outside there. I: Let’s for example talk about family planning… What they can share with the community. R: They have sisters and children and they have friends so they can always advise them in our club this is what we are told. Don’t do this if you do this its problematic. I: Ok another question. What do they think? Do they think a club like this for the boys would be helpful and if yes, do they want it to be separate or the same and what age? R: The boys should be separate. R2: They will spoil some of the young girls. R3: From 12 to 10 at least but those old ones they will spoil. But you know the reason why we want the old ones is because they reach a certain stage where they confuse the girls (unclear) early pregnancy. I: Ok the ages for these groups for the girls, what do they think of having younger girls in the group or older girls in the group? R: (unclear) 18 for the girls is fine. I: Now maybe a few question… running your own business… how do you see yourself in five years? R: She’s saying by that time there might be time. No she saying that in the next five years she would have moved and she would have moved and if she would have done a house like that, and I said why not buy a car, she said these kids that who are young now by then they will have grown and will take the car out from her. So its better she will invest in a house and I agree with her. I: What is she saying? R: Construction that might last even for children the generations might come and come and find abcd who has done this and that. www.integrityresearch.com 67 I: Oh so she wants to work in construction. R: Yeah that one did catering but according to the studies they have not finished all the sections that are expected for then to finish. I: They will continue or? R: There was no training, and then they were taught about housekeeping they finished. But up to now they are just kept. They were not marketed out. I: Does she go out on her own to look for a job or? R: They were taught about catering but they have not completed (unclear) she was wondering whether they will be recalled to complete so they can get new jobs. I: That’s a question we can ask the colleague. END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of Focus Group- Yei Adol Leaders Date: 24 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent T = Translator I: I think and how old are you Betty? R: Am 20 years. I: Question: And are you working in the program or what is, you are going to school also? R: Am working as adolescent leader, new side west. I: OK. Till what level did you go to school are you still going to school? R: S. Two. R2: Secondary school. I: Are you married? R: Am married. I: OK and you have children? R: Yeah. I: How many? R: Two. www.integrityresearch.com 68 I: OK. Thank you, your neighbour? R: Let protocol remain observed am Wubere Mary I: How old are you? R: I am Guava salt. I: Guava salt? R: Yes. Am twenty-two years old. I: Twenty-three? Twenty-two. R: Twenty-two. I: And you work as a… R2: Am married yes. I: Two children? R: One. I: And you go to school or you still go to school? R: I want to go and then just O level senior four. I: Senior four. R: Yes, I have the hope of going but because of the access that’s why am here. I: OK the access to the school. R: Yes there is no finance that’s why I reached senior four. I: And now you do work as an adolescent leader? R: Adolescent leader yes. I: OK thank you and your neighbour. R: Am Rose Night. I: I remember the name also and the face now, beautiful name. Twenty-two? R: Twenty-one. I: Work also? R: Adolescent leader, High City East. I: High City East. R: And am married. I: And you’re married? R: Two children. I: And you also went to school? Which level? R: I stop in senior one. I: OK. Then your neighbour? www.integrityresearch.com 69 R: I am called Mani Joy. R: Mission East. I: And I think we have here all your other information. You are like twenty-two? R: I have twenty-two years now. I: And not married? R: Not yet, am single. I: And you went also up to which level? R2: Up to senior three. I: OK, thank you. R: Am Rose Sunde, Lumuku West, twenty-one years. I: Adolescent leader. R: Yeah adolescent leader, we are the foundation of this beginning of the programme. I: Ah! One of the first ones? R: First. I: So you can tell us a lot? R: I will tell you a lot. All the way from the beginning. I: Good good good. I like that but are you married? R: Yeah. I: And children? R: I have three. I: Three. R: Yeah. I: And you went to school? R: Yeah, P7 only because there was no money that is just an end for me. I: OK well thank you. Now we have information now we can get to the real work. We can continue as soon as the gentlemen leave. The first question I wanted to talk to you about is, OK, what about the programme. Some of the in your work what you encounter some of the strong points and some of the things that could be improved. You can say anything about the attendance of the girl, or the partition of the building, or the numbers of loan or the experience with trainings. Just anything that comes to mind. R: Excuse me madam, your speed is too high. The speed is different from ours. www.integrityresearch.com 70 I: OK I need some help. I: They speak… I understand, but he can also help me in slowing down my English. R: Yeah is OK. I: OK. Since you all have been working with the programme for one of the founders from the beginning, what we would like to hear from you is some of the things that go really well in the programme and some of the things that could be improved. Let’s take some minutes to think about it. R: There some. Yes. OK, thank you for that question since from the beginning we were the founders even we worked as surveyors for this programme of AGI. We got many things that have used and also there are some challenges. The good things are, the trainings we attended them. There are so many types of trainings: we have trainings of trainings of tailoring, driving, carpentry, even there are so many I hope you know, Computer. But the challenge is that the training last time was given the duration is too short. They are given only. The first stream goes for one month and two weeks now the second lot, two months. I: That might be a challenge to learn many things in just one month? R: Now the other one for me is in this side of tailoring, people now are facing problem because they are giving us the machine. Two people in one machine, one. That’s the problem we are facing in the clubs there. I: And tell me, does the machine stay in the club or? R: No, they are not they are working with it. I: At home, at one person’s home? R: Yes. I: So you need to share, to set time who is using the machine and then the other one is using the machine. R: Yes. I: OK. R: Now, two in the club there, there are lot of things they raise to tell us. Let us come and raise for you. We have students there, which are in the club. Now the students they will not able to come and attend these trainings in like of two months, three months. Because they are going to school. Now two they told us to raise the complaint better over graduation we depart with our pens and books. Now three. www.integrityresearch.com 71 There is no games, the story books are not there now. But in the beginning there they give us we use story books advice we use advise these adolescent girls we used to go in the club and we talk more and advise them. But now they give us the book since 2010 until now the books are not there. They got finished. If we go and open the club, we just go with attendance register only, we go and stay. I: On the issues of the book, there was supposed to be like a library where you put books and students can come and read them in the club or take them home. R2: No. They read after reading then after at 6 we collect them and put them inside. Tomorrow also at 4 we come and open the club they will come but now they are not there. The books are not there. The games are not there. I: But you got them. In the beginning you got them? And now they… R: Yes we got them. They are destroyed madam because they stayed for long. I: Yeah, three years is a long time. OK. So let’s talk about about the training because we are talking about livelihood trainings but how about the other trainings, like the financial literacy and life skills training what is your idea about these trainings? How did it go? R: The finance literacy was taught to us. We were taught how to make budget even there were lot of things. We also went and talked to our members down there(unclear)they even know what they can do things concerning money. I: How did it go? I mean you were taught in Juba on this? R3: No, here. I: Here and then you teach to the girls, R: Members, to the members. I: To the members and was it difficult for you to do the trainings to teach things? R2: They was what. They are now, it used to be difficult. I: So that went well. Did the girls understand slowly how they… R3: Yeah, right now even others are picking loans and they are now working. (Unclear). I: So that was really helpful for them as a preparation to getting a loan or thinking about a loan. www.integrityresearch.com 72 R2: Yes. Even some are now picking a loan and are right now working selling things in their small businesses. I: And in the life skills training how did that go? R: Life skill training it really helped us in our communities things that are happening before I think are not happening again. I: Can you give some examples of that. R: Some example I can give about family planning. At first you would see a woman like me having maybe four to five children but right now they were taught about family planning. They are able to produce and use family planning methods. I: And before you, sorry, and before you didn’t know that much about it? R: Yes. I: And is it easy for you to go to the health center to get family planning or? R: It’s easy yes. I: You go there with you husband you discuss it with your husband or? R: You go with your husband. I: OK. R: And it also improve the status like for raping cases they are now reduced in our area because we were also taught to go and taught them. Now they are improving a bit. R2: How will family planning reduce rape? I: She is talking about the difference, she is talking about family planning R: OK. I: So how did that go? You taught the girls how to protect themselves or what not to do? Or… R: Yes, we were taught many things like moving to disco places is not allowed. Moving, let me say, just anyhow movement to any place that is not recognized is not good. Also the books were there with a lot of pictures and a lot of stories also they read the stories and tell them and currently they are now reducing the movement is not there. I: So is because you are not moving anymore? R2: Yes. I: There is less rape. R: Because of the advice. www.integrityresearch.com 73 I: Aha OK. I: But what do you do when you need to go to a place for example I don’t know who of you has a shop or has a small business like you. You have to move sometimes. How do you do it? You go with a friend or a brother? R: Like me, sometimes you go, you control yourself or you just control yourself if it’s in a bad place. If you see a friend, she have a good manners you will be close with her. I: OK so you move together, that protects you. R: Yes. I: Maybe somebody… R: Madam, also like this early marriage they taught us here then we go to field then we then we also taught these girls who have 18 years. We advise them as they told us here. At four we can call them they come in the club room we advise them then they read the books. The time will go because with that clubroom, if the girl comes from school at four she will just leave the books and she went. She will go anyhow. Now the time they taught us they opening this organisation then we start now we see in our areas there is no stubborns for early marriage. Because now this organisation help us. I: But in what sense? Because early marriage is not only because now girls can go to a club. It’s by more things. Isn’t it? Why do girls marry young here? R: Some will go marry young when you don’t have parents some parents are not there. They died. Some doesn’t have money, they are poor. You want to go to school there is no money, that’s why you will think what am I going to do? Let me go get married. I: Ah, OK. Alright. R: Some ladies even sometime they will get married soon because of the bad manners. They never even hear the parents. I: I don’t understand bad manners. R: The bad manners of the parents. Some parents are not advising their children. Now since when we opened this, even the parents other parents used to force their girls to get married because of finance. When you force your girl you get a lot of powers. when you don’t force you will not get powers now since we taught them the www.integrityresearch.com 74 advantages and disadvantages of forced and early marriage, they are now improving. I: So you are also talking to the parents about this? R: Yes yes the parents are there. I: And how do they respond because they now lose income? R: Them they have known the advantage. When you didn’t force your girl to get married in an earlier age, when the girl maybe went to school. Later she is going to help you but when you forced her to get married; she will not help you anymore because she doesn’t have any other work only the household work of the husband. Which that one will not earn him money and will not help your parents. I: It makes sense if you show the advantages to the parents? R: Yes. I: You wanted to say something? R: And if the poor family even we advise them, that parents who are advising to go and dig, if the dig maybe they will sell something and make money to pay their daughters in school. I: So schooling is also protection against early marriage. OK. Thank you. Can you tell us a little bit some of the challenges besides early marriages some of the challenges girls face at home? Like for some of the problems they have even with the parents or in the community, because I understand from you in this discussion you talk about. R: OK thank you. That challenge is that one can face when you get married earlier one of it can even lead to death. Because when you marry immediately production will come. Now when you are not ready to produce, you can just go to operation cases and within our locality you cannot get good hospital that can operate a person good. Sometimes it is just by luck. When you get bad luck immediately you die, because the operation is not done properly. That is one of the other challenges. I: And then besides early pregnancy and early marriages what are other challenges for the girls at home? R: Also, for girls when you go for early marriage when your brain is not yet for marriage you will also face a lot of problem because you will get, you never get any knowledge at home there. You never know how to cook. Even you never know how to get for yourself one pound. Then that one will bring a lot of problem also. www.integrityresearch.com 75 R2: One of them, sometime you just go maybe your husband is poor he is not working or your dad is just refused to help you. This is also disturbing us… I: So you are very lonely as well? R: I said, some of the challenges, you just go to the marriage you will wait. Your husband is poor he doesn’t have any money and your dad he just refused to help you because he sad you are now somebody’s responsibility. Yeah. I: OK then something about how you, what are your experiences with the program? For you personally as a trainer, as a leader? You’ve faced the same challenges I guess as the members. R: For my side the time we starting this program. Because, we came here and then they send us to field. For me I get that challenge of getting members at that time. To get a member is problem. They told us to go to field to face to go to… I: To? R: They were still beginning the project it was first sent for survey in the areas and were told first make the chips for the elders of the community to briefly tell them what is going on and then get those who are interested. From the beginning I think from there they faced some challenges of getting members because people they don’t know what exactly is going on and were having questions in their minds what is going on. But after two weeks I think they become appreciative and just join the club (unclear) and up to now many of the members have benefitted from the program. And even her herself has got something. She is talking on her own feelings. I: Yeah that’s OK. R: One of the challenges they have faced and is really making them uncomfortable is since they started this work they move footing from one area to another the whole day. They were paid first twenty-two… R: Forty-two at first they were given forty-two, that was their basic salary 2010. R2: Then when Rashid came, they are given now seventy up to now they worked with the seventy they have not changed, their salary. I: For? Monthly? R2: Monthly, their salary and the way they are seeing this work load they are doing moving the whole day footing, no food, you have to struggle for the food yourself and at the end of the month they are given this seventy. This is one of the things they feel they are not catered for. www.integrityresearch.com 76 I: I can see that also its long hours because the communities are very far, you have to walk far. So some of the challenges we’ve seen maybe some of the changes because of the program some of the positive things? R: The positive ones or the negative ones. I want to talk on the negative ones. I: OK. R: Other challenges that we are currently facing, the games let me say the properties we used for playing are not there. That’s why when the members they came in they can ask you people are given money to do this and that and you consume the money you don’t want to give us the right. And even when you sit. When you convince the members you tell them tomorrow, they can you tell them tomorrow. Like they want the ball, the netball and it is not there. Now when they come, it’s only the books and they are tired of the books for three years the same stories, they want some new books at least with another stories and the games to be in. I: OK we will discuss this BRAC with the owners of the program. Because that is point well taken that if you want to play games and have activities and do education trainings you need materials. But we’ll discuss that with BRAC. So maybe some of your experiences with the changes with the girls when they came they didn’t know many of the things you were talking about and now you see them… changes. Maybe you have some examples of girls… R: I will give this example. First am just staying as goal keeper but now that BRAC has given me a tailoring course at least now am able to get myself something. Am now working as a tailor. That’s the change that I have seen. I: Will it make a difference, because you learn a profession and you couldn’t start working? R: The question is not clear. I: what was some of the changes you see in the girls or within yourself and you give an example? R: Others are now getting money from BRAC and they are working I think this is a great change even to them. Without that program they cannot able to get loan from BRAC. I think the money improved that problem. I: That’s very positive and those who are not taking loans, do you see because not all of them are interested or not all of them are ready do you see any changes in them? www.integrityresearch.com 77 R: There’s changes. Because some are… positive parts like they all do this, at home and now that the system of BRAC had come in they will be able to make choice others they can take loans and do business. Then others can choose to be trained as tailors others can be trained to do agric. others can choice. That’s where everyone know they can get a benefit from where she made the choice. That is the positive part we have seen and most of them get learned from the club. Like there are those who didn’t know anything because of the team work once they come to the club they share ideas and experiences, at the end of the day those who doesn’t know anything benefits from those who have knowledge therefore become rich in knowledge. I: Do they also share the knowledge with non-members? Or its only within the club? R: Within the club. I: And if your neighbour in the same community is not a member? R: You can also tell her the knowledge. I: OK, and you see that happening also? R: Yes. I: OK very nice, we asked already a few of you how would you feel about starting the same club for boys? R: For boys, it should also happen. When the office allow that boys could be allowed also to that group or else for theirs open different just depends on the office. I: Yeah it would be well depends, Could be a mix club, but we would like to hear from you would it be a good idea to set the boys and girls together in the group? Or have them their own separate space? R: For me its OK because even when you go to the schools there are schools that are mixed boys and girls…and sometimes the boys have more knowledge than us or else we are having more knowledge than them. R2: Even the boys are asking us in the community why is it that this club is open only for girls, the assistance is only for girls which means there is segregation or what? They are also asking us. I: So what you say to them? R: I said things will change gradually, when we raise this, the office will think about you. When you produce a baby in order to move slowly… www.integrityresearch.com 78 I: So let’s talk a little about in your becoming an adolescent leader did you receive sports and training by BRAC? R: By BRAC? I: Yeah by here the training center. Maybe, You yourself in your adolescent because you gave trainings to the members, and you get trainings and support, how was that? How was the trainings? R: They have done trainings for finance literacy, like for child protection, for the like life skill and life food, they trained us here and then we go train there but it was really OK. I: Is, Some of the clubs have a day care center for the children? R: No. I: So the children get with the sisters and the mothers or? R: Yes. I: And the trainings were good? R: The trainings were good yes. I: What happens when the program closes with the clubs? Or we come back in two years we still have AGI, BRAC clubs? R: For us we hope that the programme continues. Because some of us the thirty members when they get the benefit of BRAC what about the rest? We’ll be helping the 30 only? Or after when the 30 members get the benefit and we also go and register another new members to also benefit from the… I: True. And the community, how does the community support the clubs? Is there some communities that give the building to the AGI club? All of them are rented? R: Yes. I: And do they participate in some of the meetings you have? R: Yes, like the support committee. Yes. I: Was it difficult for you to combine your adolescent leadership work with some of the other things you need to do at home? R: It was not difficult because the time begins at evening hours. When you know that today is working day let me say from Monday to Friday, like us who are married, you cook earlier you cook the sauce for lunch you reserve another for the evening. This will give you time to go attend your work. www.integrityresearch.com 79 I: And how does your husband support you in your work? R: Let me talk in my side. My husband he supports me positively. Because he said these things are ok the program is ok even if there is no money but he knowledge they are giving me is very important. I: So he is supportive. R: Yes. I: And in your case Betty? R: For me my side, if there is a problem, in the clubroom there even you will go and solve that problem. This is in my side my husband. I: OK good. R: For me he is challenging me not to go to the club then when he went to the working place I will cook very early then I run to the club then if I have finished there and then I come back home the time that he is reaching home he will come and find me at home. Then after that I am going to training that time I was pregnant then I ask him that I want to go for tailoring course he told me no that I should not go. But I did not refuse I go and tell my mum so that he can give him advise. Then my mum come and advised him then after that he allowed me to go for the training after finishing my training then I start working in the same place that we were training. When I told him today I am not going to work, he start getting annoyed because he know that if I go to that place I will get at least something. That is the challenges now. But this time he know that this thing is really helpful. I: It’s not all. R: Everybody has their own because people are different their husbands who are different. There are husbands who quickly there are husbands who will be difficult but later on they follow. This is a very good case study we will take a case study, we will not like to name but we will do a case study but… I: Thank you for sharing your experiences and being open because its really not that everybody from the first like he was saying you go to communities and say there is a new program. They even don’t know what kind of program it is not everybody from the first moment is really into it. You really need to show that there is something in it ..that its really beneficial so that’s part of the… them maybe lets look at your own future dreams. What would you like to see… www.integrityresearch.com 80 I will phrase it differently. What are your hopes or future dreams for the next let’s say couple of years, three years. R: Yeah, my next future dream is asking BRAC to give me more training so that I can also become a teacher to train others. I: Let’s say that BRAC says no, are you going to other places for.. help me to translate it. In case you say I go to BRAC and ask them for more training but if BRAC doesn’t have any new training, are there any other places you would go to make your dream come true or possible. R: But the difficult for us here there is no places, if like us we have family you have children there is no any place to go. Maybe if you are within around Yei here, but to go somewhere you will not go because of the children. I: That’s fair enough it needs to be feasible. You need to combine it with your family life and it needs to be available in Yei. R: Yes. I: Some other dreams (maybe translate for her). When we come back in three years where do we find you. R: She wants to… (unclear). I: And your husband supports that? R: They agreed with the husband. I: Good. OK. Final question then you can go for lunch. If you would change something in the program what would you change in the BRAC program and in the AGI clubs? Besides from the materials. If they have the chance to make recommendations improvements to the programme, what would be their suggestions or change something and maybe leave out illiteracy or anything? (Can you help me translate it) Recommendations for the program, if they have the opportunity to make changes on the program or the club or the function… R: For her she’s saying I am not all those things will miss, should be given each a machine that sharing, and then with those who have gone for a driving course have up to now others didn’t acquired enough and those who have even acquired enough they are relentless, there is nothing they have gotten from the training despite they have the knowledge but work from what they got they are just at home they think they are irrelevant skills than you know they can be able to quickly acquire a job so that you can be able to make money. Driving is good but maybe there are few cars. www.integrityresearch.com 81 And also here, maybe men tend to fear that women will not drive them well. You know there is also attitude. R2: Especially Like her she did driving course even she drives a car at home. But now the problem is where to get work. It’s not easy to get opportunity. R3: The training period is very short. So they really feel it’s short to cover all the things. I: I can see that. But I can see also that it would compete with the hours where the girls go to school so… R: Maybe they need to review both, yeah. R2: They can have the girls go to school do other kind of skills like the life skills are really good but maybe the income generation is more of the other ones who are not going so that they complement one another. I: What about the agricultural courses because all of you are also in the program with agriculture? R: Total failure, no germination of the seeds. Even if it germinates it will be eaten I think they don’t have insecticides. I: Alright. I read about the ages in the club it is 15-24 some have members who are a little bit older. Do you think it’s the right age to start with this program or should you start with younger girls or older girls? T: How about the life skill? R: There is different ideas on the age. Mixed feelings about the age. I: So there are different needs for each age groups? R: Yes. I: For the younger girls you would like to focus on the life skills, hygiene preventing early pregnancy, early marriage. For the older one you would think of financial literacy and livelihood training. So there is an age difference. R: She is asking whether there will be admitting more girls (unclear) and we refer the question to you. I: Because where we don’t have a say in anything how BRAC is still in with the programme. OK well thank you very much for your… R: They are bringing a very important point about that there are these young girls BRAC members they are registered but they also go to school and they don’t www.integrityresearch.com 82 actually attend any of the activities of the club. So how will that be addressed? So maybe is also BRAC right? I: Yeah, but it’s a good point because… R: If you can give someone who can benefit you know because yes they are there and they could benefit from the other life skill maybe BRAC will have Saturday for them for the life skill and their vacancies can be filled by people who are in need and would like to have skills and have children and are married so they can benefit from the income generation activities. I: That a very good point thank you. R: She said, I think sometimes back they sat with them, with the leaders and they were finding out if there are other skills that maybe the girls would like to undertake. And he wrote several skills such as nursing and you remember he talked to us about nursing but he just said it was very expensive. I: And the one mentioned childcare? R: I mean for those who are lactating mothers at least they should have child care. And then they were talking about the schools that BRAC is running the community schools and the justification they are making is that if they are trained then BRAC can actually use them to train these schools. And that would help them to earn some money and we are wondering whether this is still the case. So maybe also BRAC will be the one but we can include this new discipline that they want it to be included within our report and then BRAC will also come and respond to them. That is just a proposal. I: Yeah. OK we’ll ask um… R: Nursing, teaching, secretarial services. I: And computer is that of interest? I: They have mentioned like one of the separate that was challenging. These two are… R: Computer and driving. I: These two are not… and carpentry also. Few girls did carpentry. Carpentry was too hard? R: They were not um… you cannot maintain them for long. They are not of good quality. Most of them broke before the period that is required and it was not replaced. I: OK. www.integrityresearch.com 83 END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of 130522 Torit BRAC – Credit officer_009 Date: 22 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent I: Welcome Evelyn to this discussion. I'd like to introduce myself, my name is Mabel Isolio of Integrity research. We are here in Torit to talk to you about the adolescent girls initiative programme. And before we continue I'd like my colleague to introduce herself. I2: I'm called Christine Jada. We work together, (unclear). I: OK Evelyn, perhaps I'll begin by asking you to explain to us what your work involves as a credit officer for this programme. R: First and foremost I'd like to give my appreciation to you people to at least come and see how we are progressing in the programme in Torit in microfinance. So, I joined BRAC in 2011, and I was recruited as a credit officer, at first. Then later on I was also involved to be a community organiser, in running also the club activities. So in microfinance, my work as a credit officer. The programme began by the staff who are the community organisers, who were recruited and taken to Juba for training. So when we came from the training, we were given a different knowledge about how to begin the programme. Being trained in how to (unclear), how we can get people who can really (unclear) in microfinance. Those are some of the things we are given. So when we came back in the field, we started our work by carrying out surveys in the areas where our clubs are. That is to say, we were dealing with mainly our adolescents in the club. I: Before we continue I want to find out what kind of survey were you carrying out. R: It was a survey whereby we were moving from home to home. The home of the adolescent girls who were in our clubs. Among the 30 adolescents. www.integrityresearch.com 84 I: So what were you asking them? Was it just the movement, what specific information were you finding out? R: We had a questionnaire, whereby in a questionnaire included the name of the adolescent, the parents' name, the marital status of the adolescent, is the adolescent in schooling or not, is she married or not, is she having kids or not. Then her interests in microfinance. Is she interested to be a microfinance member or not. So, the questions were actually (unclear). I: And how did you use that information as you had collected it? R: Yeah, after we collected the information from the field, the survey was mainly to targeted people, people who were willing. To get those ones who were interested in microfinance. In the area here, people are interested to make business, but they don't have the finance too start. When we got the group of those who were interested, we had to shortlist them. The interested members. But at first, before that, they were also given trainings for the club. By the club leader. After having been trained from the office, by we the credit officers. So when we shortlisted them out, we had to form the groups, club wise. In each and every club we have groups of microfinance. A club in Askai is one of the groups, then (name) is one. So in those clubs they are some of them are having 27 members, 23, 33 members were interested in microfinance. So after that we again went into the clubs. We call those specific people. The interested ones. Again highlighted them on some moral knowledge of microfinance. So when we talked to them about it, how you can maintain the money after getting from the office, and also how you can make your business continue running. How you can realise profits from good businesses and from small things. Then from that one, after having made the groups. The groups consisted of 5. We had a large group and a small group. A large group is for all the members in the club. Then the small ones we divided those members from each and every club according to their number. I had a group in (name), I had 27 members who were interested in microfinance. From the 27 I divided them to be 5 in each and every group. Then when I made that I had to select their group leaders for the small groups. To help coordinate with the ones in the area, and also the adolescents. Then after having got the highlight about microfinance, the more knowledge we give them, and we sat down in the office and we got four months. We went to the field and again filled some forms with them. So after filling the forms we went for further www.integrityresearch.com 85 investigation on how they are living in the area. Because microfinance is something which is so critical, we had to take it in a very right way. So we went to the field again. There were some who got trainings from BRAC, from livelihoods trainings, and they were given materials. Those who were doing tailoring training, they were given machines to tailor. I: This was part of the grant? R: Yeah, it was part of the grant, just like a grant. So we wanted them to continue with their businesses, that's why the organisation came with their knowledge to give them on microfinance. To add to what they had before. We went and visited their businesses, and others were having tailoring, others were having a small salon, in a group, or even individually. Small commodities for small businesses, like sugar, salt, rice, to begin with a business. So we had to give them, after we assessed. After we got those who were progressing and those ones who are really really trying to improve their lives, by getting more money. We had to bring them down, again we talked to them. We gave them advice on how to handle that. Then from that one we gave them the loan. I: What was important in forming these girls in small groups of five? R: It was very vital to form them in a group because we saw that when they meet in a group they will be able to share ideas among themselves. Like when someone gets losses. That doesn't mean that when you get losses in the business immediately you have to abandon the business. So we thought it was very important to tell them if someone faces a problem, others can be able to help her by giving advices, by helping her. I: what are some of the strengths that you have experienced from the girls who have managed to take on microfinance? What are some of the greatest strengths you can observe so far? R: Can I understand the words strength? I: What can you say are some of the things you can observe as a result of the girls having received these loans? R: One of them is like, those of them who had children, they are not married, they have no support from any other person. So when they got the training and when they got the microfinance, we saw that their life was improved. How they are able to give medication to their children, out of the little they had. Then also paying school for www.integrityresearch.com 86 their young ones, and are able to support themselves and fulfilling all their basic needs. I2: Any other thing that you observed out of the credit component? R: I also observed that the community members around the community, their lives have actually completely changed. In a way that by then we had children from other adolescents, the children used to go and look for food outside, the parents had no way of getting money to feed them in the house. So when we gave them the training and they are getting microfinance, the children became stable, they are able to stay at home. No more loitering around the community. So that's one of the most important things I saw from the microfinance. I: What about challenges in this component - any specific challenges that you observed from the girls getting this money? R: I don't see any great challenge. I can't say that there is any challenge because they are able to pay back the loan in time, to do many things of that. And even we do caution them, (unclear) it's only a progress. I: A progress. What about those, perhaps, who have dropped off. Are they some who have taken the loan and who have fallen off? R: No, none of them, because of the small groups actually, none of them. I: So the small groups, they guarantee each other, or what? R: They are not actually guaranteeing each other, but they help each other by giving advice. Moral support by giving advice. I: What about opportunities, how do you the lives of these girls. What kind of opportunities do they have in terms of using the knowledge they have received from this training and the credit, the money they have received. How do you see their future? R: According to the work I observe myself, I see that the future is actually bright. Because they are really doing good. I: What are the things you see in the observation, some of them hoping to grow their businesses into larger businesses, or some of them who have been employed doing better and getting bigger groups, opportunities, good things that you (unclear). www.integrityresearch.com 87 R: So, in terms of businesses, for those of them who are dreaming of improving their businesses, they are actually very happy, and they really still beg the organisation to continue taking them. Of course, for them to develop their business, the organisation needs to keep on giving them also some more small loans. I: How you see the lives, because you say you have seen the lives of these girls change, and have seen the lives of the community change. When you think about the girls who have been able to get these loans, in which specific ways have they changed? For example, let me give you an example in terms of how they talk with the members of the public, how they conduct themselves perhaps in their home, how they conduct themselves at the areas of business. R: That one I can say that before we gave these people the trainings and the loan, the one thing I saw before was that the girls are not able to control themselves in the community. Let me say, (unclear) and also conducting themselves towards the community. So now when they got the things, they came to realise that they are now mature and they have known how they can control themselves. Even if someone wants to take their money, someone want to (unclear) of anything, they have now known how to make themselves be strong, to overcome all the challenges that they are facing. I: In terms of conflict, maybe some of them with their husbands or their relatives, are these some of the things that they resolve within the groups? Perhaps maybe you can share with us any experiences are there when because of the loans, they may have differed or the relationship with their husband has changed because of the loan? R: The relation in terms of relationship now, like for those ones whose husbands abandoned them. I saw that when the husbands saw their women were progressing, they were not able to come and reconcile. Some of them are now reconciled, sure. Some of them are now reconciled are now staying with their husbands because maybe they thought that this one are now abandoned her and this one is going to be a loser for the rest of her life. But when they saw that these girls were progressing, after getting the loan, after getting the trainings, the lives, the livelihoods and all others, they are now.... they came back. And even some of them are saying I wish I knew. I would have not left my wife. Because most of them also... (Laughs). Yeah, some of them do not accept again their husbands to come back for them. You go, I www.integrityresearch.com 88 am now able to feed my children, I'm able to support myself. I don't care about you. And they now say I wish I knew, I wish I knew. So I say that it's one of the most (unclear) problems that I see. I2: I'm sure you must be interested in following up these girls to see how their businesses are, because you already said you visited some of their business before you gave them loans. And (unclear) they are doing the loans. How do they, where do most of them get the commodities for example for the salons, or do they get them from Juba, from Uganda, or how easy is it for them to (unclear) these places. Is there any resistance, for example from those ones' husbands? R: For those ones I observed myself, most of them do get their commodities from Juba like for a salon. They get from Juba. Others even go up to Uganda, to go and get their commodities there. Because now most of the husbands now consider them people who are mature, who can understand. They know what they are doing. I2: And what about in terms of being able to speak up. Are they able to talk in public as a result of this, they were already able to tell their husbands that now this is my position, but what about in terms of meetings, a lot of them talk, or they are still very shy? R: They really express themselves fully. Because you know when you go through some challenges and you are drawn out of it, you will be the best teacher. So I said that they can really express themselves in public freely. I: I wanted to find out also, what you think about these programs involving boys too. What do you think of these programs including boys instead of having girls only? What are your thoughts on this? R: Specifically microfinance? I: Yes R: Yeah! I say it is also very important for the organisation to include boys. You know, it's a bit like we're segregating those ones out. So according to me, I feel like the program should also involve young boys who should be sharing ideas with the young girls. So, because people have different minds, and we have the belief that men have a broad mind. So it would be so good when they come together with these girls, they share businesses, lifestyle, and (unclear). I: But the boys themselves complained, or is it just…? www.integrityresearch.com 89 R: They have ever been complaining. Even since right away from the survey. Because we could go, get a girl at home, we only interviewed the adolescent girl. Some of them asked, where are you leaving us? We are also interested in your program, but your program does not want us, so. I say it is very important to also include them. I2: No, what can you explain specifically on the credit component? Especially about on the decisions about who is eligible, are these girls the ones who decide on their own to come for these loans, or do their husbands also advise them whether or not to take them? R: For that one, the first idea comes from the adolescents. Because an interest, you can't force someone to, even if their husbands is interested when she is not, it can't work. So the first thing is they get their interest, if the husbands are there they go and consult their husbands: I want to take a loan. I want to do this business to help me at home. Sometimes the husbands do insist. But the lady is interested. So we as community organisers we also go. We talk more to the husbands about the importance of microfinance, and about the importance of the lady to be in the program. So you find that most of them really did not again insist for the wives to take the loan because sometimes they took it out of ignorance. They do not know about microfinance, they do not know about the importance. But if you tell them about the importance, automatically they also get interested in that. I: What about, what kind of support are you giving to people who are taking loans for the first time? R: Support? We give them support just by giving them guidelines. Yeah. We give guidelines on how to maintain the loans. That's the only support we give. I2: How to maintain the loans, the payment. Maybe you can now share with us an outstanding success story, or perhaps a girl who took a loan and how she has learned over time. The most, for you, (unclear) that you can say this adolescent was like this and she has through the program taken the loan and tell us a good... Her life story. R: That's so interesting. From my side, from the clubs, which were given to me, the five clubs, I have one of my clubs called Haile (name). There's Haile (name), there's (name), there's (name) etc. Those are my clubs. But I can give you a story from Haile Moteh. So there's one of the adolescents by the name Jokomina Chaban. The www.integrityresearch.com 90 lady was made pregnant from the school by a man, so when she joined BRAC of course I was (unclear) for the AGI. So I got her in BRAC as an adolescent girl. But most of (interrupted by interviewer - unclear). From primary. Sometimes here people start schooling late. She produced when she was around 15 years. When she conceived her first child. When she was 15 years. So that lady, when she joined the club, she was like the husbands home as first. She produced one child first and then she was again pregnant with the second child. So when the husband was also a student in 2nd grade, in senior 2, when the girl was in primary 4 when they got married. So when they see that it was very hard for him to have a girl at home he had to chase the lady away. He chase the lady from his home with the children. So when the lady went back to the parents, they said last time you refused to study, you wanted your husband, you go back and face that husband. So the lady had nowhere actually to go. She was just (unclear). So when she came, she went to one of the neighbours who was an adolescent girl also in the same club. She went and stayed at the home of that girl. So, when time comes for the club they go together with the girl. She was getting, she was being given some trainings and other components of the program, like life skill training. Because in the club we do life skill training almost every day, in the club. We tackle topics like topics. So she was being taught about all the things about pregnancy, the marriage and HIV/AIDS, she got all the trainings. Then when we came to the third component, she was given agricultural training. Remember, she was still at the home of the friend, after being chased by the husband. She was agriculture training; they came to the office and given training for five days in agriculture. Then she got some seeds, some digging materials like (name) and hoes. The girl went back and she sat down. At first she wanted to move the things inside, but the friend (unclear/interruption by interviewer). She wanted to leave the things there. She didn't know what to do. She was confused in mind. But the friend took (unclear), by advising her. She went ahead talking to her. You can improve on your lifestyle, now you are very lucky that you got some seeds. You got some materials you can grow, and open sands, and you can dig. She also had to take the ideas of the girl. So she went... the friend had a garden near the river and that garden is for family members. She talked to their family members and she was given a small portion. So when she went and started cultivating she cultivated towards mainly tomato. Tomatoes (unclear). She cultivated tomato. When the thing www.integrityresearch.com 91 was ready and ready to be eaten, she had to remove some to the market. She was just selling sometimes by (unclear). Inside the market, sometimes she fears because you can be charged from the market to pay something. But she can come within the area and sell from home to home. So when she got money from the tomatoes, we went and interviewed her again. We went to her because I'm a community organiser and I am concerned with her. That friend went to the adolescent leader, then the adolescent leader came and also informed me about the incident. So we had to go and talk to her. So from there we had to advise her. You have got something small. At the moment you are eating from your friend, even if you give some small support, but still there's something that you can save. So also they are given financial tricks by being taught on how to save and how to budget and how to get income. All these things. So the girl did well by taking some small money from what she got from the sales. She went to the nearby village that's just near here, that place is so (unclear). So she went there and got some sorghum, and she brought it. She went to the market and she started selling them in something they call Kura, Kura in Arabic. Eighteen. She started selling (unclear), ten pounds. When she started to realise that the profit she got was somehow OK. So she came to me because I am her credit officer. Evelyn, I have this small amount of money and I want to open some business for myself. So from the service (?) you last time encouraged, I was interested in microfinance, but because of the problem I got from my husband, that's why I first had to stop with him. But now I want to get a loan. I told her there's no problem as long as you have something that you can add on the loan. Because for the first loan we normally give 500 to 1000. That's the beginning. We don't give more than that. So when she came she got 500 pounds in the office. The girl went to Juba, by then the ... clothes for small children. She went there and bought them. She came and started the market and she sold the baby clothes. Now when she sold the thing, they brought her the money. She got some good amount of money. She came from there and she (unclear).Then she called me and said Evelyn there's something we need to discuss. I went and she was trying to tell us how she was doing her business, but now this is what I have. (Unclear) continue with her business. Now the lady, after selling the grains, she went ahead to... Again, she bought this one the machine for grinding paste. She bought the machine for grinding paste. Out of the money she got from selling the grains, she continued selling. Now the lady is progressing, she was www.integrityresearch.com 92 able to buy a plot for herself. She built the club and now she's there with her two kids. Only the two kids. I2: From her previous husband? R: Yes, she is just with her two kids. She refused the husband to come. Now she is there, paying the house and the school fees for the kids. Able to buy food, she is just in a comfortable house. I: Are we able to get her? R: Yeah, we can get her. I: This is now one of the case studies. Very good end to the story. I2: So she has come very far. R: Yeah, and now she is just moving. She goes and brings commodities from Uganda. She also puts new her (name) machine. She is progressing. I: The machine makes what? (unclear) I2: No people... Now they use the machine. Because the grinding is very strenuous. Very heavy. And also not hygienic. This is very good. R: Yeah, now she is very happy. And she can share her experiences with other adolescents in the club. She is still one of our members in the club. She talks with them. Now she has become a teacher. To those ones who want to marry again. Don't marry ever like me, you go through a lot of problems, even if you had working (unclear) you can progress right, but you are stuck with yours. So it is better for you to study, don't get husbands at an early age, study for you to be responsible in the future. I: I think the parents are very embarrassed even having chased her out. R: For sure. She is supporting. She does not have any problem, for her she just (unclear- marriage?) that is always the annoying thing with parents. If you do a big mistake like that, the parents will always be annoyed with you. But you are the one to call them after. (Unclear). I2: We talked about the marriage, the dropouts… R: The dropouts from school. Yeah. I2: The dropouts from school and their relationships with their parents. R: Now… with the program or the family members? www.integrityresearch.com 93 I2: Because if they are in the programme, are they ever able to go back to school? And maybe drop out of the programme? R: Yeah, for those ones who... In most of the cases, we do not have people who can just drop out from our programme. Instead, we have people who want to join our programme. I2: So you don't have dropouts from the programme? R: Some. There is very few, but because some of them are being married to far places. But not many—one, two... not very many. I: Now, is there any case where a dropout from the school who joined your programme, then because of the training and the benefit of the programme, she may go to school? R: Yeah, there are one of them in the club in (name). But the father died, even the mother died. Then because she was given the training, then when she got the tailoring machine, she went and sat in the market. She got to collect the money for herself, by then the school fees were not all that much. Around 25-35 pounds. When she was in senior one. Then when she reached senior three, there was no way of paying herself. because the school fees were again increased. So when she got the training an got to the market, she got some money. And now when she has some money she is going back to school and also the business is running. She has hired someone to work with her business. But also she can go there if there is no... like weekends she can go. But she is schooling. I: Do you have a specific age group that you can give the credit for and anyone who is in the club and qualifies. R: For the loan? I: Because some people can qualify when they're 15, 16. I don't know whether you have a limit where you can only give to people around 18. R: Actually from the age limit of the programme - we started with 15-24. Then in 2011, that's when the 5th component (finance) was reached, so by then they are about 16-25 years. Most of them. Within that range. So the chance was open to anyone. But from what we got, we saw that those who are 16 years, are not so much interested. But those who are from 17, 18, they are very interested. And also, not only that. There are some of them who are 16 years old, who did not go to school. For those who did not even see a blackboard. Those are the people who are so www.integrityresearch.com 94 much also interested. Some people who are 16 also open some small business, because of the trainings they got. I: The way we are completing our discussion is how does the programme expect, or how do you intend to ensure that credit or issues of microfinance are appreciated by the community. How do you make them aware that it is hard to (unclear), to ensure that the community is part of the system. R: Through even those ones who have got loans from us, can go with them within the community, we talk with them and they share also their experiences. Mainly they give the advantages. The benefits they got from microfinance. So we ask credit officers, we talk with community members, but also the girls go themselves as examples, to show that the programme is really very good. So they go and share their ideas and what they have got from it. I2: (unclear) R: Mainly most of the time, for those ones who are with us in the club they go to the areas and talk to their friends. Those ones who are close to them. And also the parents of the girls who are with us. Because they are aware of what is taking place over there in the club. So for those ones who know about the advantage of microfinance go also and talk to other fellow parents. This is what I have seen from my daughter, she took long, now she's like this like this. So that's one of the most we normally do our things. Then also radio talks, yeah! We also go to the radio. We talk about our companies and the programme. To make people aware (unclear). Because there are some areas where our clubs are not operating. They were (unclear), but now they are under control (unclear). So for those ones who get what we are doing, we also work with the radio. (unclear) Then also we have debates in the clubs. We can call it debates because from different areas we come together in the club, then we share our experiences. I: That's good. I think that's all from what we want to discuss. I want to take this opportunity to thank you very much for having shared the time with us, your insights about this component and the programme in general. R: Thank you. You are welcome. END OF TRANSCRIPT www.integrityresearch.com 95 Transcription of 130523 Torit HAI MAIRO-1 Adol leader_0012 Date: 23 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent I: So welcome to our discussion. We would like to introduce ourselves. I will start with myself. My name is Mabel Isolio, from Integrity Research and we are here to talk about the Adolescent Girls Initiative programme with you. I2: I'm called Christine Jada, we will be asking you about that programme and speak free and tell us everything. I: Don't shy away! R: I'm (name). Adolescent leader of (name). I'm doing work with those members of my club. I: That's a very good opening. What do you think you are doing very well on the programme and your adolescent girls? R: What I'm think I'm doing well… When I receive training for life skill, we have been given a book. Then from there when we are training in the group, we discuss. If today we discuss about menstruation period, we discuss about our own menstruation period. After that one, we depart on play a traditional dance. Then the next day we proceed to head today maybe about raping. Then from there, we finish the raping, we do other dramas, all sorts. Then again, like that, we rotate. I: So you admiration of the programme is that it is able to use may many different methods of improving the lives of the girls. R: Yeah. I: What is it that you can remember that has been very good from the life skills training? R: For example, one thing was good because you know, we have so many girls who drop out from school. So this thing, the BRAC come with this programme to help those members to come back and... You are supposed not to forget yourself (unclear) but you cannot able to do everything. Then they realise that they can also even if you drop out, you can be able to do other things like for example, we have (unclear) training for other things, business, tailoring. So they know themselves that they can be able to do other things, even if they drop out. Still if you are trained in www.integrityresearch.com 96 other things, like livelihoods, you have the training in tailoring; you are able to do other things. But even if business (unclear), you cannot just relax at home and stay like that without doing other works. You are able to progress in life, not just relax. I: So you are saying that the life skills training is very important whether or not you continue or you start a new business, it will still be very useful in your life. R: Yeah. I: Now maybe I need to ask you about something on life skills training, because you are talking about that even if you drop out.. There are some people who already dropped out after the life skills training, or after the livelihood training? A: No. After the life skill training, because they know now how to even maintain their menstruation period. Because when you do not know how you period is, the life cycle of your period, you can get pregnant immediately and you don't even have family planning. But now, they're doing even they know themselves how to space the children and do other things for themselves. Like in menstruation period, you cannot even how to maintain your knickers, you cannot just leave it like that, after menstruation, you wash and you dry. You put on in the sun side to dry and to wear after that one. So they know it now. I: So what are some of the things you feel the adolescent girls need but is not covered by the training? Something you are not taught, but you really wish the training could have covered. Is there anything you would have liked to learn, or you think the girls would have liked to be taught, apart from what has been...what should be included in the training? R: Adolescent members are supposed to be taught with how to behave at home with their husband because sometimes when these lessons times at around 4 to 6, after departing from there maybe your husband will go and just quarrel with you. And then what I want to beg from you, we need you to go just some visitor clubs at times. Each and every member is supposed to call her husband and we talk with them. SO that they feel even free. They leave even their wife to progress with other things in their life. I: So in other words she is saying that the husbands should be involved so that the can provide more support. So that is probably one of the weaknesses of the programme that the husbands have not been involved, which is why www.integrityresearch.com 97 they could be bringing some resistance to the programme. Anybody you think should have been involved so that the programme can run better? Anybody else? R: Yeah, like for example we need to put even boys there. Because now they are complaining that only you girls get this BRAC. Why is it that only girls, why is it that BRAC is neglecting only boys. These things, if we want to run it peacefully, we have to also involve boys so that this programme runs peacefully. But all the time, but we used to explain to them that this one, because women are weak and at times she drop out, she cannot be able to cope now with her life, that's why BRAC's training is only for ladies and not men. But what they are complaining they need also boys to involve in this training. I: So would you support boys and the girls doing the training together, or boys to have their own programme and girls their own programme? R: They were supposed to have their own. Girls are different. I2: Different programmes? Why do you want them to be different, not to be mixed? R: Because you know boys, if they interact with girls it will bring so many problems. At times, even those men they think different. I: And then the boys and the girls go there to make friends. OK so that's a reasoning. Now, I'd like to ask you about your perceptions of the girls, whether you think that because of the programme they are changing in the way they look at life, they are changing in the way they talk to people in the public, they are thinking, they are different in the ways their relationships with their husbands or their parents. What can you tell us about this? R: There are changes, because for example, I have a friend also who is a member of BRAC. Then now she's doing also well. She comes and borrowed money from here, then she went and talked with the husband and now they are progressing life with selling. They have opened a small shop. Now they are doing well with the husband. I: Anything else? Where you can see a change that has happened with the girls? Do they move freely, or there is disagreements between them and their husbands when they want to go and buy, maybe commodities for their shops. If you have a salon for example, maybe you want to buy commodities in Juba, or Uganda, or Kenya. Do their husbands follow them, do they talk about it? www.integrityresearch.com 98 R: No, they are not following. They will do it. Because if they talk with their husbands… I saw even other girls they are going to Juba and bring other commodities and are selling and doing other things. You are able to move just free. Because once they have this programme from BRAC, immediately they will leave you to go and bring all these things. I: The other thing I need to ask you is specifically about the trainings themselves, and just ask you about the trainings and the materials. Do you think they are enough? How the training was given to the girls and the materials, they are given? R: No, it is not enough. I: For example, which particular livelihood? R: Livelihood, the one with salon. I: How was it not enough? R: Because the one with salon, after finishing all the training, they have given only chair and the dry comb, then the other things they told us they would bring later. It is not enough for starting the business. I: How long ago was this? R: No. This year. I: It was this year? When you were told it? R: Yeah I: And they have not brought? R: Yeah. But still we are waiting. I: OK. Have they been talking about it? R: Yeah I: OK. I2: You say about the training in salons, it is not enough? Is it the duration or the items given? R: The items given. After the training. I2: You say it is a dryer, a dry-comb? R: And chair. I2: Do you think that the period for training is enough? R: The training is not enough. I2: How long is the training? www.integrityresearch.com 99 R: 3 months. I2: Three months is not enough? R: Because... people like… they cannot plait well. They cannot plait pencil (?) well, but other type of plaiting they can do it. I2: The other thing I need to find out is whether you have any challenges being an adolescent leader? Because you already told us how you are selected, how after the selection you are also trained on how to become a leader. But we want to find out if there are any challenges, any problems on being a leader among these girls. R: No I have no challenges. I: The girls don't give you any problems on how to work with them? R: No I And if they have problems on their own, do they bring them to you? R: Yeah. I: Yes, what are some of the problems the girls have been bringing to you? R: The girls not even have much problems. But at times if we have no material for playing other things, then they (unclear)… Then I talk to their leader also, then I call them. I: But generally, just being a leader of people… You know sometimes people can be very difficult. Sometimes maybe you hear them call another who has not come today because their husband was bringing problems, the child was sick, or they had quarreled with someone else in the group. DO they bring you these problems, and how do you deal with them? R: Yeah that one, they'll bring their problems and then we will settle the case. If the problem is maybe they quarreled among themselves, the members, that one we are going to settle it among ourselves. But if they quarrel with their husband, I as the adolescent leader will go and visit their husband. And ask ... I: the details of the problem. R: Yeah, for the problem, then I support even that if the case happen from our side, then I'll even talk to the husband. I: The other thing that I need to find out from you is about the support that BRAC is giving. Do you think that there are areas which you think BRAC can do better? How can they improve the programme? www.integrityresearch.com 100 R: They need to give us long-term training. I: Long-term training, anything else? Like in which areas? Just in one particular, or the whole programme? R: In a particular, because when they talk about nursing and (unclear). I: So nursing and the teacher training, and what other programme? R: And tailoring. I: And tailoring. They need quite a lot of time? OK, that's good. What about the support from the community, is it there, or the community also does not like the club? The girls club. R: From the community... if the place is not there, for example the playground… if it is not there, what they will tell us - are we supposed to play in the football ground - not within. I: Otherwise, if there are no questions from you, I think we have exhausted our discussion and I wanted to thank you very much for what you have shared with us. R: Thank you. END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of 130523 Torit HAI Mission Adol leader_0011 Date: 23 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent I: Welcome to this discussion. My name is Mabel Isolio. I come from Integrity Research, and we are here to conduct a research on the programme of Adolescent Girls Initiative. Basically just to find out how the programme has been doing. I'd like you to introduce yourself and before that for my colleague to do the same. I2: I'm called Christine Jada. So we're a team and we're doing the same job. R: Susan Sembe Franco. Adolescent leader for Hai Mission. www.integrityresearch.com 101 I: Thank you very much. The discussion we are going to have with you is very simple and we ask you to be very free, because this information will help improve the club. So basically, the first thing we would like t find out from you is your involvement with the club. How did you get selected as a leader of this programme. R: I got selected to be a leader of the Hi mission (unclear). They got my name in the paper, they ask me some questions. Then I told them, and they select me. I: What were some of the questions you were asked that may have led you to be selected as an adolescent leader? R: They asked me about my school, and my situation. Then I told them. I: And what else? R: About my situation with my parents. I: Like what? What was your situation with your parents? R: Like now, I was a dropout from the school. Then living with my parents I faced some difficult problems like going back to school. No money, supporting for me to go back again. I: Are you having any children? R: Yeah I have three. I: Do you have marriage? R: I was pregnant from the school, but my husband chased me out. That's why I was going back to my parents. I: Your husband made you pregnant, you didn't stay with him? R: Yeah. I: He refused to take you? R: Yeah. I: And all the three children? R: Yeah, all the three children. I: So when you are at home, he made you pregnant and then you gave birth, and then he told you again. R: Again he confused me. (Laughter). I: You know women sometimes go through this kind of thing. We are not ashamed to talk about them, because we know they happen. R: Yeah. (Laughter). www.integrityresearch.com 102 I: Yes, so what is it that you find very useful about this programme? The adolescent girls programme. Maybe the trainings. What do you find very useful, for example in the life skills? How did you find the training programme? R: The trainings where… Sometimes they can teach me like life skills training. They teach us about (unclear), and about rapes. Then also about forced marriage. There's where I learned more from them. Even now, I am still... I know how men confuse women. I am still sitting with my parents. I remain at home to treat (unclear). I don't want to again because this is going to cause hurt. I: OK. And what about the livelihoods training? Has that been useful to you? R: Yeah! Also tailoring and salon. Even me I know how to plait. I can plait them against some money, then for tailoring. Some of us are doing tailoring and for agriculture they give us seeds. Then I can plant, and then from there I will get some money. I: But you as an individual. What is the livelihood skill you are interested in? Are you interested in tailoring, if you would start your own business, which one would you choose? R: Salon. I: Why do you like salon very much? R: I like salon because we have many customers, like now, the time of Christmas you get many people who come to get their hair plaited, for 100 pound. I think I will get a lot of money. I: That's very good. And any other trainings that you received that you would like to talk to us about? Financial interest - have you ever been trained in financial interests? R: Yeah. Also that one I have been trained. I: And you find them all useful. In terms of you education, where did you reach. You say you dropped from school. R: I reached senior two. I: Senior two? OK, that's good. Now, let me ask you about you being an adolescent leader. What are some of the things that you like about being a leader of the girls? www.integrityresearch.com 103 R: Because I need to show them... for example, because I am mature, I believe I have faced many problems, like dropout from school, then I need to advise them to not drop like me. Or let them be forced or, or let them not get (unclear) marriage. I: OK. Did you receive other training on leadership, and if so, what specific aspects did you like about the training on leadership? R: Because when… being a leadership. I think this one you really have to encourage more. You know to make sure to know what is going bad and what is going good. Yeah. I: Let me ask you now something a bit personal. How do you think that you being an adolescent leader has... first of all going through this training and therefore being selected as an adolescent leader, how has this changed your life? Has it changed your life, for example, the way you look at things, for example the way you talk to people? How has it changed your life? R: Actually now it has changed my life to be good, even sometime you see me I'm dressing well, because I'm getting money through my trainings, through livelihood trainings, for example like I was telling you I can plait someone, then someone will give me money and then I can pay for something which I like. I: What about making decisions on your own. Are you able to make decisions on your own after this training? R: Yeah, I can make decisions. I: Like which decisions have you made which you think you nobody interfered, nobody told you like your parents, or a relative. R: My decisions, I can make them, I am going to the salon, I am going to plait. When I have some money I will set them in bank, then after that I will go back to school. Oh, also I will support my children to school. I: You have an intention of going back to school? R: Yeah. I: OK, what about now if you want to go anywhere, and you are telling us that you stay with your parents, do you still have to ask for permission. Or how do you go about it? R: I will ask permission from my parents. Yeah. www.integrityresearch.com 104 I: Especially when you are just coming to the club or when you are going out to other places, like maybe Juba, maybe Nairobi, maybe Uganda, maybe... Where do you ask for permission? R: OK, maybe when I go to Juba I will ask for them. Then I can inform them that I am going to Juba, so let them know that I am going to Juba. But around here in Torit I don't ask. I: But they have never refused you to go? R: They know now that this training is also... it has now changed my life. I: In terms of speaking in public, are you... before the programme, before you became an adolescent leader, were you able to talk to people in public, where there are so many people. Or is it only after this programme? R: I was fearing. But the time when BRAC select me to be a leader, I can speak. I: How often do you speak in public? R: Sometimes I can speak in community. Now I’m a teacher, I can speak, I can (unclear) with children. Even with adolescents. I: So, do you have any recommendations for this programme to be done in a different way, or the way it is being done is OK for you? R: The way it is done is OK for me now. I: OK, now I want to come specifically to your own personal experiences with the programme. Some of the questions you already will have answered, but other I want to ask you to give more details, and particularly on the training that you received. What do you think about the training itself - the way it was conducted, and the materials you received from the training. R: The training was given to us well done. The are supporting us with some money, for transport and also they support us with money for lunch. And we did training for 9 months, and also they give us materials for us to start with. I: Which training were you doing for 9 months? R: For 9 months for tailoring, then (unclear) for three months. I: 9 months tailoring? R: Yeah. In (name). I: OK. So when you finished 9 months you get a certificate, or what do you get? R: Yeah, they will give certificate with the machine. www.integrityresearch.com 105 I2: Let me find out from you, do you have very specific challenges, maybe just explain to us what specific challenges you have being an adolescent leader. Do you have any problems being a leader of adolescent girls? R: Yeah, actually. Maybe when you are a leader, sometimes you face some people who ... (unclear) when the parents are chasing one of your members (unclear). Then you come and counsel her. I: One of the challenges is really dealing with some of the problems that the girls bring. OK. In your own life, I think you already talked to us about how your life has changed. And you have also told us that you have discussed these things. So it appears that... do you discuss these things when the rest of the girls are here, or just… R: The two of us. I: The two of you? And why do you have to discuss the two of you? Why is it important? R: Because when you speak in public it is not good. Because maybe that one is ... so that you can concern her and the two of you... I: Do you consider the support that BRAC gives as enough. Maybe you list what you think is enough about it? What is that support that you think is enough? R: They are giving us enough. Even... like then they are also giving us like property, which we are going to, like books and also trainers. Also they give us (unclear). I: Where to sit. R: Balls. I: To play with. R: Then they give us also the (unclear). I: So where you meet the club itself. I2: As an individual, do you have problems running that club? R: No. I: Why, why don't you? I am not forcing problems on you, but I'm wondering why you find it so easy? R: Just because this one we are getting easy because all activities... Girls they can play, balls (unclear) they can come. Even train. You cannot get difficult things. It will get easy for them to come, because this one… They need more. www.integrityresearch.com 106 I2: There are planned activities, so each time you are here you are contented. That is why it is not difficult. R: Yeah. I: And support from the community, do they also support the project? What do the community say? R: They are also supporting that it is good. I: OK. (Unclear) I: That's OK, that in your community they have not talked about why you should involve boys, they have not talked about it? R: They have talked a lot, they complain about it. I: What are they saying about it? R: They say why do BRAC choose so many girls, are we not (unclear), why are they choosing only you girls, they are supporting you, they are giving you training. And boys, why are they not doing things. I: But it's not like they are hostile to you, they don't want to see... R: They are just complaining. I: I don't think I have any further questions to ask. That was very useful for us. Thank you very much for sharing with us your feelings about the programme. R: Thank you. I2: Thank you END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of 130525 Torit – Employer - Tailor _0030 Date: 25 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent I: My name is Mabel - I'm coming from a research firm called Integrity Research. Here in Torit to discuss about the activities of BRAC, and we have been talking to different people, we've been talking to the guards that are www.integrityresearch.com 107 going through the programme. We are also talking to the employers, and we are happy that you have accepted to give us an opportunity to discuss with you. Maybe my colleague can also ask. I2: I'm Christine Jada. We are working as a team, we are coming to ask you only very few questions. Feel free ... and any information we are taking from here is not going, or we are not going to say that you said. Just a general question to see how this girl is (unclear). I: So maybe first of all, something about the business. When did you start this business? First of all, your name, your full name. R: Agnes Ayou. I: You have both children and a mother? R: Yes. I: How many children do you have? R: I have 3 children I: OK, they're all going to school? R: Yeah, they all are at school. I: OK, they're all at school. How long have you been in this business? How long have you been operating this business? R: (Unclear). I did my training for tailoring things in (unclear). Then from there (unclear), then I was in Uganda. I worked with (name) for four years. After (name) I went to Kampala, and I worked with a certain company for three years. Then after I started my own company. I: So you were working there employed through (company name) to make clothes for them? R: Yes. I: OK. So you set up your own company here? R: I started my own company in 2006. I: 2006. So what are some of the designs that you make in your shop? Do you make uniforms, do you make girls, women's clothes? We want to know. R: I make uniforms, school uniforms, for ladies, for men. I: And who are your main customers? Individual customers or do you make for companies, for example schools, where they say make for us. www.integrityresearch.com 108 R: I make a contract right now, like I'm making for (name) secondary school, and even (name) primary school. I: Primary? Which others? R: The others just bring retailers. I: OK. We are happy to hear that you are also an employer. Definitely when you have got contracts, this is how you involve the people you have employed. How do you feel about this girl that was employed, that was trained by BRAC? How is her work? R: Her work is not all that bad. But she still needs to.. you know with the work of tailoring, it needs patience. But for her, her heart is up up up. But somehow we control her. I: How long has she been with you? R: She joined me... now she has done something like six months. I: So what are some of the things that you can say she has… R: I can say at least now that she has started improving. I: So what are some of the things that you see that she can be able to make well, and people can buy? R: She can make these fashion of kitenge, the simple fashion. She can cut and (unclear), and the school uniform. I: And school uniform. Anything else she can do? R: Only those. Because with trousers are still (unclear) her. I: So it means you are actually mentoring and coaching her how to do some of these designs? R: Yeah, that is my work. Since I train them also with (unclear), I brought them. The first team I had, I brought them and I trained them. They're OK now, and they are somewhere out there. And the second lot is this one who, this girl, is also (unclear). My work is just bring them, then when they feel it is enough they will go and set their own. I: Maybe you talk to us a little bit more how you structure, how you plan your training with them. Do you plan that you do this design, then the next one, then the next one or how actually do you plan your trainings with them? www.integrityresearch.com 109 R: When I'm cutting, they all sit near the table and they see how we measure, and how to cut. I: Anything else you do? Apart from training them how to cut. R: Even sewing, I do and then show it. Because sometimes they just make locally, but I'm sure they do like, even like putting in the (unclear), they don't do. Putting this white thing, I show them how to do! I: Now do you, suppose, where do the materials come from, do you show them, is it just your own materials, or do you also ask them to buy their own materials on which they can learn? R: It's my own. I: Your own? Now, suppose they come with their own materials, would you also agree that they train them? R: They give and get their customers, then come and I help them cut, and they cut. I: And then they take it and they sew? OK. Now, the first that you were saying was that they already went through your programme. How long did you stay with them? R: I stayed with them for three years. I: For three years? And now they were able to stitch different designs. Are some of them on their own, or are they staying? R: They are doing their own business. I: They are doing their own business? OK. How do you see these girls when they come through here and they have their own business, what are some of the good things that they can be able to do as a result of your training? R: I think it will be a good business, concerning the (unclear). They will be a good tailor. And maybe, what I do they will be able even to supply schools. They will do a lot. I: Now let's look at the markets, because you are saying now they are on their own, do you think that they are able, with their two years, that they are able to compete in the market? And they get orders as much as you are getting? R: You know, with the business, you don't rush. After the two years, now they are making the retail. They cannot yet get a contract. After my training I did not start immediately. Almost after ten years is when I started all this. I: Getting contracts? www.integrityresearch.com 110 R: Yes I: What do you see as some of the challenges being a mentor to these girls? Have you run through some challenges and which ones? What you did in the last two years and any specific stories? Any specific challenges you encountered as you trained them in the last two years? R: Yeah, according to the training all people are doing here, the training for tailoring - the duration is too short. The training of tailoring of three months cannot make something in somebody's (unclear). At least for 9 months to two years, it is when that person can stand firm and do something for herself. But this training for three months is just giving the introduction to tailoring, but not nearly enough. I: How you enter the threads, how you should step on a machine. So in your recommendation, the minimum training... R: From 9 months to 2 years. At least that long before they can do something. I: Any other challenge that you find as you work with them? R: Anyway, their problem also, concerning education, you know, with tailoring it has mathematics. You know these situations, their education is a problem. When you are teaching them, you have to include the local language, so that can understand. I: So you need to know the local language, and you need to know maybe Arabic. R: Yeah, I have to talk Arabic, (a local language) some English. And not like those two understand, they speak Wau. And those who understand Arabic. There are others who understand all English, but few. I: So you have to get to their pace, this one in English and different languages so that you can be able to understand. What about in terms of their finances, those who are going to start their businesses. For example, to have their own shop, for tailoring, what kind of resources do they require? R: With tailoring, what I know is that to have the machine, the machine is the capital. The sewing machine, the scissors, the tape measure, is capital. You go and sit and then the customers will start coming. You start, the customer comes and you save and that's how we teach that. If today you get 20, you have to make sure you save some five pounds. And until the end of the year, you open that box where you were saving and you (unclear). www.integrityresearch.com 111 I: Any other? Any other challenge, so far there are two challenges that you have identified, the one of having inadequate skills, because the training took a very short time. Therefore, they need a much longer time; also you were talking about perhaps having the foundation / resources with which they can be able to buy a machine, a good machine, a pair of scissors and so on. Any other challenge that you foresee for them to be able to start on their own, at least to start doing retail. R: This training that is happening in Torit area here, this training cannot make them do anything on their own. A training of six months, three months, cannot make them supposed to start their own. It is good that they get their machine, and at least because they get the machine, I bring their machine here and continue training. I: Any recommendations that you would like to make for these girls? Having identified the challenges. R: According to what I can see, because me I have taken a long time training these ladies here. For all the NGOs that are trying to train these people, what I can see, if they could just plan for a job before they train them... Let them plan somewhere, where they after training them they take them for a job direct, so that they keep on. Now if you see, the people you have trained, very few are doing something. Majority, the machine is just inside the house where it is useless. Instead, they come for the NGOs just to buy the machines. They better plan. If you are making a uniform in a a factory somewhere, and they just employ them and pay them monthly, then they will be able to cut and they will at least be able to stand. That is what I have learned from my experience. And secondly when they are training ladies, most of them have babies. And you find they go with their babies there. But babies are disturbing, when you are training and you want to show them this, the babies are disturbing. And if at least the babysitters can provide breakfast for the babies so that the mothers can really be constant on their training. So that they catch up. So that is what I can comment. I2: (Unclear) What do you mean about providing breakfast? A: You know when you have called these ladies for training, some of them come and they have childs, babies, they have their young babies. So you find she is in class, the baby also is here. Crying, all the time the baby wants to breastfeed. She has no time for that. And that thing has happened everywhere I've been training. So if they www.integrityresearch.com 112 put a babysitter, and they prepare porridge for those children, they feed them so that the mother remains. I2: This is what I actually wanted to ask, there are others who are saving their machines, (unclear)... I: So they are not using their machines? R: They are not, because they are (unclear). I2: Now, suppose they have the machine, why not hire someone to do the... R: And who will hire you and train to do the work? Who is that, and will do tailoring (unclear). Let me tell you. Nobody in Torit, and who has done tailoring before, their work is just (unclear). Can he manage to rent the machine? But what I've seen, if women of Torit (yell?) at the government to open their eyes on women, they will do something. Just a matter of getting somewhere, the office... Garments, where they produce, even uniforms they bring from outside. And the uniform for police, they all bring from outside. Now if the government could plan, the people they are training here - let them also do the things. I: In the factories. They learn what they do but they can't get the jobs there. R: Exactly. At least they will do something, and the country will develop. I: You are right. R: Any other questions that you would like to ask? I: These are the questions and we are satisfied with what you have told us. We want to thank you very much… I2: And when you say the girl that now you have employed her, what do you see as your criteria to employ. R: You see actually, I think I told you at the beginning, she first did learn from BRAC. Then from there she got the chance to do DDR programme. It is when I got to pick her from there and come here. She had even trained for three months. I: After BRAC, another three months of DDR? And now you brought her here. R: Yes. I: And will be here for another 6 months? And you are saying now that she will be able to cut and… R: She can now cut. I: And then sew some uniforms? www.integrityresearch.com 113 R: Yes. She can cut, like this style. I: OK. I2: Thank you. END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of 130525 Yei Mothers forum Date: 25 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent R: Her daughter joined the club and she is realising some support from the daughter. And one of the things BRAC did good is the opening of the school for the kids and they are able to go far. Now they have this open school and they are benefitting from it. And the loan. The loan also assisted their daughters to be busy and earn something for themselves. I: So when her daughter was talking about the programme, she was very interested in her daughter to join BRAC, to become a member. R: Yeah, what she said I fact was that she appreciated what the daughter is doing, and also what BRAC is doing. It’s a way of support system. I: Also the husband, the father? R: The father is not there, but for her she really appreciates it, the programme. I: Could she say how it changed her daughter, how her daughter changed through the programme? R: It has changed her financial status. Before I think there was nothing, she cannot get anything. But now since she joined BRAC she got the loans. It is helping her daughter, and her even financially. Also the kids now she is paying and the kids are now going to the school. I: And the daughter is still living with you or is she married? R: The daughter was married, but the marriage is not... She had come back to her. I: And did the loan have anything to do with this? That the marriage did not work because of the loan? www.integrityresearch.com 114 R: It's because the husband is not serious. He is not serious. He don't present himself like a responsible person to the parents of the daughter. This is why the lady is back home. I: Is this the same from the other mothers? If you could invite some other mothers to speak out? R2: BRAC is good. At first the daughter was given loan, from there she was taken for training from tailoring. Now she has her own machine. She is sewing clothing; she earns small money to support the family. I think they are assisting with agric., they are given the seeds for cabbage, okra, and once they get this, the okra or the cabbage, they can sell some. And the rest they consume. So that is... R2: (unclear) She actually contributes, and supports her daughter in her cultivation. I: And the daughters also talk about some of the trainings they receive at BRAC, at the club? Like the life skills training? R: They do tell… They tell them about how the young ones who protect their (unclear). They see unnecessary movements. I: Unnecessary movement is like going out? R: Yes, going out because of these things. (unclear) BRAC supports them. I: OK, maybe now we can talk a little bit about the activities through the mothers' forum. They meet every week, or every two weeks, and what are they discussing? They are doing the mothers forum, could you invite them to tell a little bit about this forum? R2: They do meet once a month. And they talk to them, supporting them in terms of advice of how to move, this long term movement. They should go direct to BRAC club and do what they are supposed to do, and come back after the trainings are finished. I: So the mothers meet every month with the girls? R2: Yeah, and they advise them. And they tell them not to use their time by going to BRAC and use it for other things. So these are some of the things that when they meet they sit together and they just advice their daughters. I: What else are they doing? R3: The daughters also bring for them the knowledge that they've acquired. The trainings, the mothers also they advice them how to respect the people who are giving them the knowledge. And they advise them also to respect them. www.integrityresearch.com 115 I: They also learn? R3: Yeah. I: And they go out in the community and talk to the community members about these things? R2: They do go and tell the rest, because the daughters they told them to spread the news to those who doesn't know. So in case any of them are interested, they can join. I: And what made them join the mothers forum, how did they get involved? What is she saying? R4: BRAC opened one of the schools here, and she sent her kids to learn there. And after that they were taken to... Her daughter happen to be the adolescent leader, so for her it was very easy to know what was going on. R5: She started going because (unclear, people talking over each other + kids shouting)... Before this school was opened, then they started forming the (unclear). They started using one of the buildings, and they (unclear). From there they transferred to this room, mother house. They started hard; in the beginning, it was hard. I: It was hard? Why was it hard? R5: This movement from one house to another. They were not stable. I2: And also, what about the life skills. They did not anticipate that there would be an opportunity for livelihood and for loans, and grants. I: And were they not informed about the whole programme? R6: They did not disclose. Yeah. R: That was still the beginning. From there they (unclear), and then they were called for training. After training they were given loans. I2: The selection of the participants? I though they were selected after the life skills? After the life skills... After the provision of life skills, then they were selected. R5: From there that's when they started talking about the salon. They gave her the loans and the chairs. They got some changes. I think if BRAC wouldn't have been there, we would have seen things were hard. For this, they are really happy. I2: She's not part of the group? www.integrityresearch.com 116 R: Her only happiness is about this school, when they opened this school she was really happy. The fees and the government's schools, and the private schools. They got just one (unclear), and now they got this she is happy about this school. I2: Some of the others? R7: (Man) In the beginning of BRAC, he wasn't getting around. I2: He was not? R7: Because... then they were left with their mother. By then he was in Juba, he got news that they opened a school here, and trainings. When he came back home he got… I2: He received what? R7: A sewing machine at home. I: He also got a sewing machine? R7: Of the sister. The mum also started to realise he was doing something. He started supporting; he also supported the programme and supported the BRAC. So that those who doesn't benefit also benefits. Those who do not know what is going on, BRAC (unclear) should also know the importance of the rest. I2: It becomes a family business. R7: Yes. He doesn't have much, it is the only thing he wants to. I2: How old is he? R7: 38. I2: He looks much younger. I: Does he think there's a similar programme for boys would be a good idea? R7: It would be better. There are many boys who are just staying, they are doing anything, and get involved in other bad things with the lack of activities to do. I: Boys sit, hang, and play? They have no other things to do? Ok. Can he tell something about how it affected the whole community, the whole area? Maybe they see some effects of the training, or the activities they do together. The community part. R2: The community have interest in training. They started pulling back because they see it's taking time. Like this movement. You come to training. It is a process. So they pull them back because it is taking time. They need something which can help them urgently. But they are having the aim of (unclear). www.integrityresearch.com 117 I: And the building. They said in the beginning it as hard because it moved? Or maybe that was… I2: Yes, it moved three times. I: And why did it move three times? R3: The number was fixed, and you know the renting. You cannot say that you will stay here for this amount. It may change anytime. They will sell the house, or they will change the price. Yeah. So that thing with the renting, you can't decide how long you stay there. I: If they would have suggestions to improve the programme. Or could they see the programme? R3: For her, if BRAC could think about the boys. It could be far better. Because as they mentioned, the boys who are staying at home without anything to do. So if boys can be rooted in the system it would be better. I2: And the young boys, or the older boys? R3: Like these boys who finished Sudan school certificate. Maybe have someone who can continue with the further studies. Because after senior 4, also the Sudan school certificate, you come home and stay indefinitely if there is nowhere you can put your head. I2: So they are like 15 then? Around what age do they finish senior 4? R3: Around 18 and up. I2: Including the boys, or making a programme for boys. How do they see, after the BRAC is not involved in the building? How could they see themselves becoming the owner of the building, the programme? R4: They are saying that if BRAC would construct for them, a place for the daughters and then the mothers, they could change things. Things would have been better. I2: Is it possible to ask the people in the area to give up... (unclear) R2: They would be able to access land. They will sit as elders, then they can get the land themselves. I: (Unclear) the building together. R2: Yes, they would sit as community members, then they will get land for themselves. Then… In the part of the learning, in the school, they are only ending in p2. Primary 2 above is not there. If it could be extended up to that level, it would be better. www.integrityresearch.com 118 I2: It is not part of this programme, but... Let's talk a bit about the traditional… about the gender roles. Do they see, are some of the girls taking driving or carpentry. And how do they feel about girls taking different types of jobs? What would they see as the best job for a girl? R4: With the ladies, the driving school. The carpentry would be good for the programme of the boys. I: Not for girls? And the driving? R4: The driving is good. R5: She has a girl who will go there for training. This girl has been for training and she chosen agriculture, and she tried to advise her to get loan, or do tailoring. At least to take part in the activities that can easily support her financially. But this lady refused. She just chose the agric. But after now the agric. cannot help her. And her question is that she doesn't know how she can go about that girl now. How can she advise her? Because she has tried, and did our best to make her choose something that can easily uplift her. But all along she refused. And until now she didn't even change with the other girls. I: What she could do is have one of the girls that started different types of livelihood training, the ones that have a successful job, like the salon or the tailoring talk to this girl, and make her show that it can work in some cases... So she has a positive role model, like something the adolescent leader or the community organiser could do, maybe. Also maybe interesting to see why, maybe she's scared, needs more knowledge. R5: There was this thing, the lady picked what was taught to them then. The only mistake was that she refused really to pick the other activities that can uplift her. Now, if she would have understood otherwise and picked other things like tailoring, I think it would be better. But the mother who doesn't have her husband around, to forget those things that have happened to her long time... It's easier if you can forget the other difficulties you have been facing. But the lady when she interact with her, she really tells her what was taught and she thought that she maybe it's good. She came with the empty mind from the training. So that's the knowledge, but she doesn't like to put it in areas where she can be like the rest. I2: Sometimes it takes time. And it's... R5: The seats... (unclear). www.integrityresearch.com 119 END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of Torit hotel manager employer – AGI girls_ 0010 Date: 26 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent I: Good morning, my name is Mabel Isolio from Integrity Research. We are here to have a discussion on the activities of BRAC, which I'm sure you are aware of. I would like my colleague to introduce herself. I2: I'm called Christie Jada. I: Mr. Manager, I'd like you first of all to tell us your name and the work that you are involved in in Torit Hotel. R: My name is Evan Sonsongo, I'm the food and beverage manager and in charge of training. Q2: We would like to find out from you, about the knowledge, whether you know, some of the trainings that the girls who are here from BRAC, the ones who are doing internships. What do you know about the training that they have undergone at their club? R: To begin with, these trainings started in April this year. And we started with ten girls, the club was requesting that I take more. But because of the service and also the quality of the training that I want to give to these girls, we started with ten. And this course is going to take four months. And these girls are going around the hotel, in major departments, so operational departments. Basically the departments include front office, and being in the front office they have already learnt to receive customers, how to do customer care services,, and the procedures in front of the check out systems. Basically what we do is, we allocate a few in each department and they rotate every month. And at the end of the course, what we are going to do we will look at the potentials of each individual and where she will belongs and then we will place that person there. And in service, which is the second operational department there is the bar and restaurant, and here they are learning about how to take a guest's order, then our menu and bar-list. What do we have, and how much www.integrityresearch.com 120 we sell. The services standards, quality customer care and also personal grooming, which also includes hygiene. Another department they are is food production. Basically in food production they are learning how to cook food, food costing, purchases of food and how the kitchen standards are maintained. And the last one is the housekeeping and laundry, and here they are learning how the rooms should be cleaned, the rooms should be made, how the bed should be made, what is involved in a customer’s clothes. In the laundry, they are also learning how to operate the machines. Basically, those are the departments they will go through for the duration of four months. We train them in practicals as well as theory. We do also take them to classes. Everyday we have two lessons, from Monday to Friday. I: And what do you teach them in the lessons, is it linked to what they are doing in the practicals? R: It is two ways: 1 what is in practicals and how to apply it, and 2 about life and how to deal with certain situations, so we talked to them on general knowledge and also the knowledge in the hotel industry. I: Now they have been here for two months, how do you see their performance in terms of how they handle people so far, how they apply the skills they have been trained in and the general relationship, even with the staff around here? R: To begin with, I think the first time they came they reported here - many of the customers thought that we were taking customers who don't know anything. Because they were making a lot of mistakes. Secondly, even their personal grooming was not good in the hotel perspective. With the trainings and the help of BRAC we managed to get them uniforms, and also they have managed to change their personal grooming. The customers have already appreciated them. These girls when they came, actually smiling was a problem. But the last few weeks, after they started, you could see their smiles. Their smiles started coming and you could see that they are very very willing and ready to learn. And even some of them tell me that if we would have stayed at home, we would have missed a lot about what is happening here. Here we are exposed. Actually, with some comments from other managers, is that we have already identified the best, who could even surpass our own staff. Ad if they continue like this, I think they will do wonderful. www.integrityresearch.com 121 I2: Oh it's good to hear that! What are some of the aspects you look at now that you have identified the best? What are some of the thing, what are the criteria you have used to identify the best already? R: Well in the hospitality industry, the first thing is communication. We have some challenges in some of them in the language, and that prompted us to begin English training. Some of them know Arabic. But those who communicate well in English as well as Arabic to our customers, that is one criterion we use. 2. We look at the professional, personal grooming. How the person is presenting herself to the customers. Thirdly, how willing is this person to learn? Three (four?) - Punctuality. Is this person complaining that I am waking up early in the morning? Some of these people are waking up very early in the morning to come here. Before 7 they are here, so you can see that such a kind of people, people who want to know something and they want to work. Those are some of the criteria that we use to say that this one is the best, this one seems to be doing very well. This one needs some guidance. I: You already identified some of them. Will you take all of them, or where will the others go? R: What we'll do, if you look at Torit - the market of Torit. Most of the hotels have foreigners. The main reason is there is no formal training for the locals here in Torit and at the moment there are many hotels who say to me that when they are finished, I want three, I want five. R: Because these people. Look at the foreigners, at the way they are treated. You have to pay for their (unclear). So the cost is too much. I: The cost of doing business is very high. R: So I think that after these I am looking at, if it was not for the hotel, I could have taken 20 more. Even the government now is asking, why don't you build something and then we will get almost like a class. But because this is a hotel we cannot go in that direction. But I am looking at a future where the government can give us somewhere and we will train a whole class. I: So you become a training centre for the hospitality section in the state. R: Exactly. I2: So they come and do an internship here. The way that we have it at the (name) college in Kenya. That would be a wonderful opportunity. Now, my www.integrityresearch.com 122 observation in talking to some of the girls is that they are still very underage, one of them is just 16. How is such a girl likely to be observed with the (unclear)? R: Yes, we have one case where this girl is below 18 years old. But, looking also at the labour law, these girls want education. If you look at the South Sudan labour laws, if the parent accepts that this girls works, the parent has to come and give us in written that this girls she should work with you. The reason is, if we deny this girl an opportunity, because there are no other colleges outside, we are denying her the future. And such kind of girls, we don't give them heavy jobs. We give them light jobs. And we help them so that when they become adults, they are capable of managing their own lives. So to me, I don't think the education that they will get in the next few months will affect them because they are underage. I don't think so. Because at the end of the day, you ask yourself, which environment are we in? This is an environment where girls are married even when they are 12 years old. If this girl is 16 years old and wants to learn, why don't we take that opportunity and give her the training rather than letting her be idle in the village and get married? I2: Suppose there is a programme for adult education or accelerated learning programme, can she not be able to go and continue her education, maybe work part time? About the labour laws, I don't know which part says that children can do the work and their father can agree to that. Especially in hotels. Challenges for her mother is that when she has already come to the hotel here, she is already spoiled. And maybe the perception of people here in Torit, they think that whoever come and work in a hotel is not a girl again. So what are you going to do in such conditions, whereby the perception of the community is looking negatively towards the hotel industry? R: Actually, the environment that we are in, that's the challenge that we have. And I couldn't imagine that we could have willing girls who could come to train in the hotel in the hospitality industry. Because in the environment here is that when you are working in the hotel industry, you are a spoiled girl. And that's the culture here. So, even if you are an adult, there are certain areas you are not supposed to work in. And it is up to us to change this culture by giving them the opportunity to be an example, to be exemplary. To tell them that this is a career, and not a spoilt career. Many people say that when you are serving many people and smiling, you are loving www.integrityresearch.com 123 all of them. That is not the case. In the hospitality industry, actually, you look at the people who serve, they are very good in relations in the future and in their own lives. So I don't think that for the underage girls (16), and i think that if the parents think that this is an underage girl, we can take out another training and another training until she is 18 years old, or we employ her. I2: This is what I wanted to know. I: Any other challenges you have encountered from training these girls? Perhaps even from staff? If any of them were unwilling to, they didn't feel very comfortable because of the grooming. But there could be other challenges that came around. R: There are a lot of challenges that you face, especially when you start a new thing. Like this one, the challenges we have includes they are working, there is a lot of breakages. A lot of crystal breakages. I: Because of the training? R: Yes because they are training, and some of them are nervous. So you get two- three glasses breaking every day. (Laughter) R: Two, because also they don't have experience, some customers complain. They said that the waiter served me, but did not serve me well. But such challenges we have tried to minimise them. I have given them nametags: Trainee. So I tell my customers that I have trainees and when you see that she is serving you, help her! If you see that the order is not being taken well, help her! Tell her I want my meat to be cooked like this, write my order like this like this. Don’t think that she knows everything, she is training! And don't harass these girls who are willing to learn. Because some of the customers we have here are very big people. And another challenge is that sometimes some of them - I force them to follow the rules - they are not used to an environment where there are rules. So it becomes a challenge to them. But I have tried as much as possible to ensure that they follow the basic rules of the hospitality industry. I: Any specific recommendations you would like to give to the BRAC programme about preparing these girls for opportunities in public life? R: The most important from my side is if we can come up with English training, because even if I train them in English here in hospitality training, to be able to take www.integrityresearch.com 124 an order. She needs to be exposed to English itself. Elementary. At least they will now face the world - communication is very important. Two I don't know how we will tackle the society, certain jobs are not done between eight and four, like hotels. So if I employ somebody from eight-four, then what about the customer who comes at 11 at night? He needs to get the same service. So in the future, the society has to be enlightened, to be open, if my girls has worked up to midnight, and she is being brought home by a company car, it is work. She was not "working". I2: That is very important. I: So sensitisation of the community and career counselling is very important, so they don't choose the wrong jobs. Good ideas. R: Because now, if you look at our hotel here... Most of the foreigner they work in the evening, because the staff here, most of them they work from morning up to a certain time, because of the college also. And we say that it is OK. But we also try to help them and say that there is work past five. Yes. This is the hospitality industry. I2: I think that with time people will understand this concept, they will realise that this is important. I: Christie, do you have any more questions to ask? I2: Actually, I think we tackled most of them. So Mr. Sonsongo, we want to thank you very much for the opportunity to share with us your experiences with providing internships and therefore potential employment to the girls that have come to you through the BRAC programme. Thank you very much and may God bless you as you continue to help the girls of Torit gain a bright future. R: Thanks a lot. Thanks for the opportunity that you have bestowed upon us. We have done this before in other places like Mombasa. And actually, what I can say is that after the training, these in-house trainees become better than those from college. Because they know that this is what I was told. I know. So I've seen others excel when I've trained them, and I know these ones will excel. Thanks. END OF TRANSCRIPTION 130523 Torit BRAC Area Coordinator_0006 Date: 23 May 2013 www.integrityresearch.com 125 I = Interviewer R= Respondent I: I think before we go to the challenges I would like to go back and ask you a few questions about what you have done as an area coordinator? One of the questions is that what is the maximum amount of loan you give to these members who are interested in business? R: So actually we have three categories of loan, first second and third loan. In first loan we give from 500 to 1000, because we are going to know that they are now starting a business and their business is not so big, someone who is doing a business of making bread which doesn't need a lot of capital, so we are giving them some little money so that if the business grows, so by so we can give them a lot of money. Then first loan we are giving them 500-1000. Then second loan from 1,000 to 2,000, then the third loan from 2,000 to 2,500, then we know that if she's been saving that month she can start her own business without getting a loan from BRAC I: What is the maximum rate, the interest rate? Is it a specific rate? Or is it depends on the amount? R: It depends on the amount. (Unclear) all is 18%, but it depends on the amount she has taken. I: 18% even if you get £1 it is also 18% so there is no difference, don't you think that is very high? R: Yes, actually. I: Because someone in the bank even (unclear) some of the banks are not 18%. It sounds like the problem is more of like a business R: It's not like business. Actually that's what we're like anyway that micro finance in this program this should not happen, but due to the demand of the members that's what this program was started from micro finance, but what we're focusing is just to give them trainings and life skill trainings, then they can do their own things. I: I thought that it was in the proposal at the beginning so that is why you are putting...? R: No no, not with that it is too much, but actually that is why we are saying it's not even first. If you want, you can take (unclear) because in the culture here you can www.integrityresearch.com 126 give them a loan after giving them money they will not give back the money, is also a risk. (unclear), but yeah that's why we are going so by so from the training, we know the people that we are giving now so I remember from the beginning that we did give financial interest, again we give them the training, she's now a member of BRAC? I: OK good. So my second question is, you talk about the child protection committee, within the members, so, is there any other committee beside the child protection? R: Actually at the club we have also club management committee, that ones composed of 7 members which are so that club management committee is a (unclear) also because you put a club within a different area, (unclear) discuss with them what we are giving them. (Unclear). Sometimes they can come and attend a discussion. (Unclear). I: And what about the child protection, how many members are there? R: Child protection we are five members, but it is not from the parents, a chairman of that committee then also we have two committee organisers, on that committee and two other leaders on that committee I: So it is not actually from the members who are below 18? R: No, no, below 18, you know our club is starting at 15 to 24, but for child protection is for those who are in that category in the club they are under 18 years, because if she is above 18 which means she is no longer a child. So those who are below 18, those are the (unclear). Some are 18. I: Why now you say you had the chair, the chairperson, then you have two COs, this is three. R: Then two are from the same leaders, which is five. (Unclear). I: I just wanted to clarify with you some of the challenges you have experienced with this training program, what do you think are some of the challenges in the training programme? R: The challenge which I can't even forget even now in my life you know I was running a Juba programme (unclear). One challenge is we open these clubs, we are sitting in the club discussing the members, some people (unclear) with our daughters. No no no we explain everything, even the chairman knows this program, what we are doing and also (unclear), so we are so scared, if we bring them life www.integrityresearch.com 127 skills, they say we are opening their (unclear). Also, another challenge, most of their husbands they didn't want take their wives to clubs, they want them to do domestic work, 'why go for training' (unclear). Those who were doing some businesses some husbands were getting money from them and they took the money by force. So it was a challenge to ask to interact, it was a problem for us, if interact I'll shoot you, so we are scared. So we discussed with chairman (unclear). We are operating these clubs in different areas (unclear), so it was a very big challenge for us, some don't know Arabic. I: So how do you speak with them? In Dinka? Mother tongue? R: So what we did actually was we get someone who is competent who can speak English in the club, so after getting that someone we can train her in English and she will pass on the information in Arabic. That's the technique we used. So we had the challenge of the voice. We opened up the club only for girls but the boys are now giving us a headache, if the girls are (unclear). Why are you training girls? Why are you training girls and leaving us behind? What can we also do? If we can also have a program whereby the boys should be included. If you train a girl to protect yourself, how to use a condom and the boy doesn't know, they boy's the one who falls in love with a girl isn't it, so if the boy doesn't have that knowledge (unclear), but it both of them are trained they have that knowledge, everything will be solved, but that is a very big problem we are facing, boys are annoyed. So importance in the (unclear) of knowledge about own life skills (unclear), big conflict in their levels of knowledge, in life skills we train boys and girls. (Unclear). Now the wife has knowledge, the husband doesn't (unclear) so if you can all give them the same thing, I think we can achieve everything, which we made in the community. I: Now if such a thing was to come that challenge, maybe as a way of addressing it or overcoming it, how would you, would you be suggesting that the girls to have their own club and the boys have their own? R: Actually with that we can separate it. My option actually is to make them to be at one in one club, because then when they are at the school in the class they all study together (next bit is unclear). We say is there is a school, only girls, only boys, they are more? Isn’t it? There are even more problems, but if you find this one combined girls and boys, for them they know each other, they are opening up so quickly, so it's better if you can combine these people within one club and we share ideas, and we www.integrityresearch.com 128 train them you are not supposed to do this, they are not supposed to do nothing (next bit is unclear) if the boys said one teacher told us this is bad, but if we are training girls separately things will be different. I: What about the male, do you think those who are married, their husbands can be included in some part of this learning, especially the livelihood? (unclear) do you think it is important to include their husbands? R: Actually I can't deny (unclear), because if in the family if there is one person who is working and one person who is having his kid, it means that the weighing scale will not be balancing. The wife she will be (unclear) because her (unclear) livelihood, (next bit is unclear), and also she has a business, the husband wouldn't be working, what the husband will be doing, drinking. So if also we can provide additional trainings for the husbands, the wife got to train the husband, she's got a problem training, which is means (unclear) because both of them have the same knowledge. I: I think basically we then maybe have a final comment I would like to hear from you in the establishment of these, management of these clubs you have really shared with us the successes, challenges, what is the perspective of community, on the management of these clubs? Apart from just them saying what are you doing with these girls. Any other sectors of the community who have made comments on the management of the clubs, or especially around the (unclear) you have made. R: Actually about that, with the community... I: About the sensitisation, because you talked about looking for when you are sensitising communities, there are concerns, issues around (unclear) of what is what…? R: Especially the mothers, when they are sensitising them, actually most of them, they have now that feeling of how can I produce my daughter, I extend my daughter to (unclear)… I start (unclear) from the club, how can I extend my daughter with (unclear). She has to go to the club and interact with her friends. And there's someone even telling us is you have trainings in different countries like Uganda, Kenya, also can take them to see how their friends are doing because they told us in Uganda and Tanzania all those things, you can take them also (unclear) so this means they also want their daughters to get a bright future. Take them. And also what we did in microfinance they are someone who has been studying, she is www.integrityresearch.com 129 young, but she also wants a business, she has completed all the six compliments but she wants a business. So what we did (unclear) your mother she can manage the business, yes my mother can manage a business. So what we did, we are giving money to that daughter but that mother she don't want to take the business you see, so the business was like the daughter and the mother (next bit is unclear), because sometimes they have school, so most of the business is run by their parents. I: OK, but does that affect decisions on how the money will be used? R: Actually with that, because most of them normally go and discuss with them their businesses, we don't want that money but we normally give them advice, how much money is (unclear) a week, how is the business? Is it doing loss or profit? So they normally discuss that with us, oh tell them no no no now this one is for your daughter. Actually those mothers who are doing that, I can't deceive you, they are doing it the right way, they can't make their daughters work. I know that the first people who pay the money in time… Tomorrow at 11 I have to get my installment, the mothers are the ones making sure that the money is paid in time. Because normally (unclear). I: I want to say thank you very much for sharing with us those insights that are really really useful and definitely will contribute to the recommendations of how to improve this program. Thank you very much. END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of 130525 Torit - Salon AGI girl with own salon_0029 Date: 25 May 2013 I = Interviewer T = Translator R = Respondent I: Good Afternoon and welcome to our discussion. Actually it's like we are welcoming ourselves in your salon. We are happy to be here with you we. We are a team of researchers from Integrity Research and we are here to discuss with you BRAC activities because we got information that you are a member of BRAC or you have been closely associated with BRAC's activities. My name is Mabel Isolio. www.integrityresearch.com 130 I: We'd also like to ask your name and your age. T: She is called Jasmine Susanna. She is 18 years. I: Are you married? T: She was married before but because of problems in her marriage she went back to her parents then one day BRAC came with their surveys. They came and asked. They found her mother so the mother told them that she has a daughter here then this is how she was selected to be among the, to be a member. It is good that it is good training they had, it is a good advice with the training. I: Did she have children in the marriage? How old is your child? I: How old is her child? T: Her child is five years and she gave birth the baby when she was 15. That's why the got a letter? Twenty years. Just because of influence. She is Ugandese, the father is Ugandese and the mother is a Sudanese from Madi of Sudan. So she was staying with them and her husband went to Uganda and picked her from there to here. So then they stayed the life was not that all ok. She wanted to go back, she went back and the aunt called her to stay here. So she is staying with them to the end and that's where she met the team of BRAC. I: where is your child? Who is taking care of your child? T: It's the aunt who is taking care of the child. I: so what did you like of the training of BRAC? skills if you want to talk about? T: What she likes most is that… she could now know how to protect herself and also giving back to children any help. She now knows how to protect herself from such a kind of things. The number of children she can even, what about this. I: what else do you like about the other trainings, especially the (unclear) or are you trained maybe about the salon? T: Since she, the most life's decision is good. It’s for the salon. She choose the salon. From when choosing the salon, she came and opened things… But the husband also entered to the salon and he faced her. The husband came and destroyed her things from here. Broke chairs, broke even… and all that. She also was saving some of her money in the bank. She went to put some money and she went through those who, maybe… money and to ask about him what she can save. This is what my husband came, he got jealous of my work and the money I was www.integrityresearch.com 131 getting and destroyed all things. At the moment I cannot raise my baby (unclear), he is now in the baby dorm… you can help… and she took a loan. I: Is that the time when you took a loan? Or you have taken a loan before? T: She takes before, that's why he came again and destroyed everything. She was given one, that one, and one chair the big chair was broken I: There is nothing to repair. T: yeah nothing. When the husband came and do such a kind of thing. The little money she had in the bank, she went and told those people: "This is what I have and you can see what he has done to my salon." When they came and they witnessed everything, they could now get some money out and add to her. They gave her 1000. She went with it to Uganda and get some shampoo and some chairs even. That's what now you can see. She has just be back one week ago. I: one week ago? T: yeah. I: Also this thing again happened again few months ago? R: yes. I: But did you report him to the police? T: (to respondent) R: (response) T: She went to police. She reports to police and police takes the action. She was taken into the court. So the case was solved and he was put in jail. Now since he was put in a jail, she also has tried to open again. and that's why until today she is trying to go ahead, the man is still in jail. I: So the man is still in a jail. For how long did they put him there? R: Six months. I: So he is there for six months? R: yes. I: ok, I just want to know also if some the main achievements you have made since you opened the salon. T: It's hard to explain. She has already bought a plot for herself. I: Good. T: She has not yet some to be old, but she is even able now to pay the school for her baby and if she gets also something she can pay for the tram and eat. She can buy www.integrityresearch.com 132 and pay for the food, and also at home, she is now playing all the roles but also it needs to do more. I: OK. How many other people are benefiting from her business? T: Almost 6 people who are now benefitting from the business. Even her father is now benefiting because he… the father isn't here, and she can send 200 or 300 to Uganda to her father, and even some products, some good clothes in the market, she can buy something and sends to her mother. People think they are benefiting from her. I: OK. How has she managing her income because that is good but it's gonna be ... because if she's going to keep giving that it's gonna affect the business. T: What she is doing now that she is saving they have been… Every week they used to give to her people who can't contribute, that give today to you and tomorrow to me, next week to me, the other week to the other one. So… that's when she realised that this is the money I save she will take direct to the bank. She will not use, but the one only she is collecting from here, is the one she is using. I: Now I want to here any other challenges apart from the attack of the husband, if she had any challenges in the business? T: A problem now, a challenge to her business. the house rent is higher and also of these people taking the, the tax collectors. They normally came and they want her things. when they see she has a lot of things here in the salon, not to ...., and they tell you to pay 500. She does that and she is paying from what she gets from this business. I2: How much you pay for the rent? T: She is not renting this. It's her uncle's place. The one is just only now renting is the light? It's only 10 pound per day. And the license… I: Now you talked about if they see a lot of things. Is it necessary to put everything here or you can have a cupboard where you can store things and just have shampoo if somebody comes then you ask so you can cut down all the cost? R: Yes I can put. I: because she can put things of the same simple and you have not used it. They came and found these here and you pay the same amount. www.integrityresearch.com 133 I2: now I want to ask you, do you have a license for the salon? Because when you open a salon like the… there they need every… the license. So if she has a license I am sure they will not come and stole you. You can do license. R: License is difficult. I2: the license, you are supposed to get it once in a year. and you have to put it Abyad because when they come they see and they will not ask you money. R: Yes—in the year. I: you have it. Where is it? R: It is at home. I: Why do you bring it at home? R: I want to make a mirror for it. I: She wants to frame it. Ok, what you can do when you do that do a photocopy R: Then I put it I: Then you frame. You bring one here and the other copy remains at home, otherwise they are thinking you don't have it and that's why they ask money. They are finishing their business, it's all close now. I2: Now they are assuming that you don't have a license this is why these are red collectors so they will count they ...you but if you have the license no one will ask you again next time. I: when did you take it? R: yesterday, I took it yesterday. I2: I am asking whether she is telling us if she has it or not. I: Why would you take it at home? Or is it expired? R: It's not expired. I2: And why do you take it home? R: Because I want to go and make something of it. I: but why they have been asking you to buy when it was here. I: was it hanging here? R: It was hanging here I: and why were they asking you for money when it was hanging... I2: Maybe… I2: Let her answer. R: (unclear) www.integrityresearch.com 134 I2: She started the business of salon last year but then 500 was taken also last year, before she get the license. I: OK, but this year they are not taken R: no I: OK, so make sure that you check the date and you will take another license if… they will not take your money, OK? I: Any other challenge you have? R: No, I don't have any challenge. I: OK, so do you have. no maybe I need to ask you, now that you have problem and challenge with your husband who even after you separated. Did you actually divorce or you separated? R: we separated immediately because he does nothing to marriage (unclear) I: Ah it is a customary marriage R: yeah I: And he paid the dowry? R: Just… I: But not dowry R: yeah I: So he is not supposed to be following you isn't it? R: No. I: And this why is he not your husband because he has not compiled all those kinds. So do you have an intention to get into another marriage? of getting married again? R: No. I: Maybe household? R: I want not because I have already been opened a business in my own and now continue my business. I wouldn't like a marriage. I: But you don't want to have a boyfriend? R: No no no. You know nowadays even these boyfriends they want to eat… even whatever and (unclear) because they now see you have a business you are now in whatever good condition and want that too and enjoy your life on this business. I: Marriage should be finished, after it is closed than… R: If someone let me that he want to marry me not even in conduction of my parents. www.integrityresearch.com 135 I2: So you have learned a lesson not to get pregnant. R: I will not. I will not because I have already been with my business. I am not getting married, I am on my own. If not good he will be I like benefit, if not… our area, our community I like benefit. As some keep these people… future, good condition. I: Now there is one thing that is interesting which you are saying, that even a man wants to marry you, he has to go to your parents, Then your parents would decide who you will marry or it is you who decide who you will marry? R: Even now I decide I will not even do, because now I don't trust to treat his… what are you manage to marry me or not? That's why we send him to my parents. You conduct my parents' pass, if they agree then you come back to me, then we shall talk. I: Yeah. Otherwise I want to thank you very much for giving us this time. You are a very empowered woman from our discussion and I think you have a great future. So please, make it useful, continue to expand the business and educate your baby, build the house on your plot and I know you will do well. May God bless you. I2: I also want to thank you. Please, keep what you are doing and I am sure you will do it because you are now a strong woman. Thank you. END OF TRANSCRIPT 130522 Torit BRAC – Cos_0007 Date: 22 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent I: Let's begin by introducing ourselves. So I would like kindly ask you to introduce yourself, your full names and what you do and you let tell us about the clubs that you are responsible for, to beginning with. Can you talk loud so that it's clear for all of us. R: OK. In the first place I… (unclear). I: OK, for how long? www.integrityresearch.com 136 R: I am a CO, I am doing in BRAC in 2011. You know, in November when 18th, so Beso, Malwa, Ase, Sido to control kind of clubs and out of the five clubs we all got different, different trainings in all the clubs. We got life skills training, those are the components: we have life skills training, in those games and the (unclear) games and all the trainings in the clubs, the computer, tailoring, carpentry, salon, catering and even designing, even agriculture, we have got all these types of training. These are the trainings that we are having in the club. I: OK, can I ask you maybe what you mean by in those training or all these games. R: OK, like the in games. This are things like the leaders, that you claim the club we have got (unclear), those are all the in those training which we are doing in the club. I: You train them or they know how? R: Those are the games they know how to. I: How those? R: Netball, volleyball they do play that, and even sometimes they go out for competitions, they go compete with other clubs outside. I: So as a community organiser, what exactly do you do with the girls, the adolescents, what is your work because you told us earlier that you are responsible for 5 clubs, what exactly is your work to these clubs? R: OK, like in the five clubs with the… all the girls because they... the number in the clubs, you see they are mainly girls in our clubs most first aid who does not know something of the adolescents and we will go to the club we do train them on how to be, things like early pregnancy those are the things we do teach them, they are suit up to at least be aware of it, we are aware that things like how to use… the HIV, we also inform them. And also along them, we also do ... to them about other trainings, we may also sometimes engage them to come and train themselves here, from different clubs we do bring them here to trainings like agriculture and also other trainings I mentioned before as for other events... they are doing right and they are training. That's the older adolescent girl we do have in our clubs. I: OK, tell me about the strengths of this programme, the adolescent girls in this programme. What do you consider the main strengths of the programme, what is it that is you can actually sat this is very good for the programme on the girls. www.integrityresearch.com 137 R: I can say it is good cause first of all it is changing the life of those ladies cause among them by them they never knew how to, how to use pills or else, or how to use condoms things they are ... More especially those married people and now given themselves having things like family planning kind of things. So by then they never knew and it actually really helps them a lot in the club. They admit to know all those kinds of things, which we taught them. I: Is there any other things that you can remember that it has come out of the programme that has helped more than what you had said? R: Which else? I: Anything else, anything else. R: Which has helped the girls? I: Yes. R: Of course from the training they receive, there is someone who has also been given other things like those ones who... go... training and those ones who did small business, chicken... even tailoring and salon. Some of them do have been given with it the material they have to begin with their things. Like those one who took, who did the small business training they also been given materials to sell so they have actually started their business and those one for salon, they have been given salon materials for them to begin their training. That one there it explained to me that the programme, it has actually helped them and when we also go to them in the community to ask about how the, how did the organisation help them this is what they do tell us cause by then there they were knew nothing and it was too hard for them even… I: OK, I am happy about what you have listed; I just want to repeat so that you know what you have said. I heard you have said that this programme has actually helped the girls change their perspectives towards life, like for example having to know about their health and well-being now they are able to think about how to lead their families, you have said that. You have also said that it asserted to get opportunities for example some are able to start a business-skills and businesses such as tailoring, salon and so on. And you are saying that generally how to look towards life of these girls has changed, the way they used to behave is totally different now. They are looking at life more positive. This is what you are saying? www.integrityresearch.com 138 R: Yeah. I: Thank you very much. And now I want to find out with you whether you think there are weaknesses in the programme. What you think are some of the weaknesses of this programme. R: Since it can really help the ladies and even I am myself sometimes there are some... here. So I see... about things, which is happening in the organisation. I see no reasons but like in the club, maybe if the trainings are there, maybe it can be added but I don't think so, there is nothing else. I: So for you just want perhaps additional training to what has taken in place. If I was to ask you to perhaps list or just name one outstanding success, you think this programme has brought to these girls. What would it be to you? In specific success, you say this has been a success. Is there anything you can say about the adolescent girls programme? R: OK. Like in the success, I have actually seen it with them. I have seen in many cases. People who are taking, who are doing the businesses cause some of them also, they came up to the... loaning money from the office. They loan money, then they are given, then they continue with their business. And also who received the tailoring machine some of them are in the market with their business. So those are the success that we have usually received. And those ones with salon they have also received the materials and now some of them are open it in their markets... so this answer. I: OK, now I want to ask you few other questions that are specific to ones that you may have observed as a community organiser and it's about the way you see the girls conducting themselves, for those who have started businesses, do you know or you have discussed that maybe they are able to or they are the only controlling their only businesses that they are able to take a decision about their business without somebody else at all telling them about this is the business I wanted to start. Or if they got money this is how I want to use, there are some like that? R: Usually not cause most of those ladies they receive training where sometimes financially they have been given the training. So they are actually know how to continue their business and how they can make from them... and how they can make from them profit. So… www.integrityresearch.com 139 I: OK, what about the ones that are asked for loans. How is the payment, are they able to do very well? R: Yes. I: Perhaps you can explain a little bit more about, about what has been happening. R: OK, these girls who loan the money, they are really paying us because the... collections it is always based on weekly collection, it is weekly but they are paying the money but some of them are also demanding us like there is... the programme, to make them pay monthly but we say no since it is not our own but it is from above so… I: The thing is weekly. R: So the people have to go to there... and many are coming up and we are giving the money and they also pay also. I: What do you think is the advantage to pay weekly and not monthly? R: Paying weekly sometimes best to myself, sometimes when I look in, it can relieve me in terms that maybe when you do the business in a day maybe when you get 100 and something if your business is running well maybe 500 or less, maybe 400 like that, it will be also make you do at least pay things weekly in sense that once maybe you give the money monthly money is uncertain. You may maybe see that they come and give the money next time but definitely, they will end up using the money. So I see that it is good also for them to pay weekly. I: You have actually a very important role as a community organiser and I know that you have observed these girls when, before they came to the club and how they are now continuing as members of the club now and they also are doing different businesses, some of them I heard you talked about had a salon. I heard you telling tailoring people that are in the market. As a community organiser have you observed any changes in how they behave for example with their family perhaps when they get back home, maybe they stay in the market maybe they stay there until very late and they go back home or the ones who are doing salon sometimes people come to the salon and very late they go back home. Have you observed any changes in the way they behave even to their parents or their relatives or their husbands? www.integrityresearch.com 140 R: OK, based on that, actually what I have observed in the... for the tailoring. These people they have got no bad behaviour cause after their businesses they do go home and in most cases you may... that those who are even doing the business they are helping their parents cause certain times... to all these area here. You may find that all the parents are not working and they are just specialising in… so it is the ladies outside, the ladies are doing the business and try to help them. I: What about in terms of openness, they are now able to talk more freely after the training they received of this programme because some of them come in the club when they are very shy but by then they might have changed. Have you observed some that are now able to talk more freely than before they came to the club and if so maybe you explain how you see the change? You can give us an example of a girl perhaps who might, who was very quiet and now she is able to talk more freely to talk before other girls? R: Yes, so far there are many cause they are some girls by then they were too shy and you see someone who is too shy you may not be... but the ones when they pass here now open with people, with others like the girls, others like that. You might find that not the same human being will not be presume... has been with other discussing together all their problems they maybe talked together and then, I have seen this so many times in all my clubs which I observed. Same girls can now coming up, yes. I: Can you give us an example. What they talk about, what they do that you now you think they have come up. R: OK, what they always do say like in the club they also sometimes are divided their fellows girls in the club here they do a divide and other things like maybe others meet up them, we just ask some of them to be there, more especially those shy, shy ladies. So out of these shy ladies some of them they are adviser in the club. So they do adviser to their colleagues not to do that or other things in the club, to respect... this and that. I: What you think should be improved in the programme so that you can counsel the girls better. You already talked about additional training but I am not sure what you mean by additional training, whether it is specialisation or other areas of training. What you mean by additional training in terms of improving the programme. www.integrityresearch.com 141 R: This and the training what ideally so far seen it is just cause they are receiving many trainings but ... cause one cannot cook something so if there was the organisation tries to come with another training definitely they can give tools but what I have seen is that many of them have received all the materials for the training. I: Let me ask you, do you think that those who have taken tailoring, is that... training is it enough really to qualify them to tailor good to become good tailors, to get you know tailoring is actually challenging because I don't know whether you are given the sewing machine and others. What are the tools that are given. R: We have given the sewing machine and what scissors and then they are given also this one for ironing. I: Iron box. R: Iron box yeah. I: OK, suppose someone has none, so these ones are consider as a grant but they are not given money. Now suppose one girl has no money to start the business, do you think that it is not a challenge, is that even the tools they... why don't you give them straight so they can start. R: You see someone doing, we, the office itself is aware of that, to get them loan and most of them came and they took loan to begin all the business. I: OK, but do you think that the duration is enough for them to become expert? R: Yeah, they are doing so. Yes. I: So the training is enough. R: Yes. I: Is it enough to be able to design sophisticated, complicated design? For example just a dress, not a simple shirt or trousers or skirt or uniform, but to make designs that are competed with which ones that are imported. R: They are doing so, but maybe five or four months like these when they produce that better I: How many months to repair? R: Three months. I: So you are suggesting that they should be five or six months. R: Yes. www.integrityresearch.com 142 I: That means an additional training. Thank you very much Margaret for your views they are very, very useful. I wish to talk to you in ten years. In case you need to know what our findings are, you can contact your project officer of this BRAC... Thank you so much. You can now take your baby. R: Thank you. END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of Torit BRAC trainer_008 Date: 22 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent I: OK, we can start. OK Jacinta, thank you very much for agreeing to come and talk with us. We are researchers from Integrity, which is an international consultancy firm doing the research and we are here today to talk to you about the adolescent girls programme. Which a lot of people call the BRAC programme here. We know that. Because you have already told us that you are a trainer with this programme, we will go straight away to the companies of the programme that you have been training. Which are the ones that you’ve been training? What are the components of the programme? R: The components we have 6 components in the programme. I: Mmm. R: Safer place for the adolescents, then we have life skills training, we have again livelihood training, financial literacy and firstly community awareness. I: Very good. So from these trainings what can you tell us are the strengths of the training? What are the strengths of the programme? Because the programme has those 6 components for the training. What do you see as the very strengths; the very good things about this programme? R: Well, the, the good things and, which I know that can help the programme, things all the 6 components, I think all of them are all good. I: Mhmm. www.integrityresearch.com 143 R: Yeah? Like we can go like the safer place. Without the safer place I think this other, these other 5 components would not run. I think we first get the safer place for them, no? I: Mhmm. R: Then, the most one is life skill training. I: Mhmm. R: Whereby we give them, we taught them how to, train them how to like skill there are many books which we are given, like rape, like early pregnancy, like forced marriage and etcetera. We have many of them we have around 20 books. I: Mhmm. R: Yeah. And livelihood training, we also train some of them in various places after receiving life skills, then we took them for livelihood trainings whereby some received from trainings like for salon, tailoring, carpentry and catering. I: Mhmm. R: Those are the most important things. Last we came to train them again about the financial literacy, how to save the money, how to realise their profits and the losses. I: OK. R: And we came to train them about micro-finance now. Whereby since they have known how to get that, realise their profits, their losses and the losses, the profit, losses and the savings, I think we went to go ahead to give them again the training so micro-finance whereby they know best where to get the loan. Now some of them, we give them those ones for various trainings to receive the loan and they are doing, some of them are doing well, in their trainings whereby I’m seeing it’s helping them and its going to help their community. I: Mhmm. R: Yeah. I: What about the weaknesses of the programme? In which area do you think the programme has not been very strong? What, and by this I mean; what do you think that should have been covered and was never covered? Maybe you can look at is as what are the weaknesses of the programme. R: Well when I say I don’t see that there is some weakness this side of Torit. Because in other areas, I can’t, I never know what is happening in other areas, particularly in Torit I don’t think there is any other programme— www.integrityresearch.com 144 I2: let me ask you maybe, as a trainer what do you think are some of the weaknesses of these trainings? R: Yeah. As a trainer some weaknesses we faced like some people don’t know English. I: Mhmm. R: That’s the most important, English sometimes they cannot keep up in English, some are illiterate, they have not gone to school. And you have to train them, you have to talk to them in English you need to translate in their local language whereby it causes the trainer to becomes, can’t speak in English some Arabic, some Lutuko, some Dinka and whereby as a trainer you don’t know all these! You still need someone to train, and if you don’t have that particular person to train that or to translate for you that, that’s one of the problems. I: Mmm. R: Yeah. I: OK. Any other problem? Apart from the language barrier. R: Let me say some of the participants, maybe parents, like those ones, those are the dropouts, beside of the dropouts. Like the husband will not accept the lady to be in, to be, to do like, like such training. Some men are…(unclear) you have ready said that our topic is about life skill. And tomorrow you expect that the whole number if you need that it will come. I think two of them will drop a bit. I: (Laughter). R: Then tomorrow when they will come, they will start complaining; ah, you see, my husband told me you came late, you did not cook, you did not do work then to still, as a trainer go back again and train this person it will still be a problem. I: Uh huh. So one of the problems is the language barrier, but also interference— R: Yeah interference from their— I: From their husbands and the relatives. R: Yeah, especially those ones when like parents are not there and, and aunties, aunties, relatives most these too hard. Yeah. I: Any other challenges that you may see coming to the programme apart from those ones with the relatives and the husband? R: I don’t think there is any other. www.integrityresearch.com 145 I: OK. Do you see, what kind of opportunity do you see for these girls to, you know, be able to, to attend the trainings more? Because you have talked about the language barrier. What opportunities do you think, is there anything that can be done to help them to continue and complete the programme; how can we address this? R: Yeah, like I was like, in the many places, like in Uganda you have this issue about ABEC schools. I: A bet? R: ABEC. Like those ones where illiterate they have never gone to school, like those ones who are illiterate they can be bringing for them a book like this they start learning a BCD how to write their names then from then they can catch up now, you teach them like adults. I: Mhmm. Adult learning. R: Adult learning. I: Mhmm. R: Some of them I think are now caught up with… I: OK. So you are suggesting that the programme should incorporate adult learning skills? R: Yeah. I: So those ones who do not know how to read and write, they should come earlier and go through the adult learning then they can come to the life skills. R: Yeah. I: Mhmm. Anything else that you think should be done? R: I think some of the things like other trainings like we think we have only 6 components. I think some of the components should be added. I: Like which ones? R: Like for example like if you, like early pregnancies along with like forced marriage, oh sorry, forced marriages are among, among those things but I, I think mostly I can talk about the trainings which can make us like, those things in the clubs for like when you talk over or discuss with them about when you are a trainer you train them enough that they will learn… they like complaining. Why is it that they are given games for young, young children (laughter)? For them and the adults they have to be given some of the things, which can at least engage them to living because they are www.integrityresearch.com 146 now parents. Like some of them are already parents, they will never accept indoor games and also most of them, the things we fit in the trainings, like when you learn about life hood, or life skills, those things of life, life skill, they had a go at it and we have gone deeply explaining to them and we have books and we especially what is happening in Sudan like rape, like early pregnancy, early marriage those ones go to them but about indoor games, these things of indoor games, it’s a standard life skill… I: They think these are for children? I: But do they suggest others that they can…. R: Yeah, they suggest mostly— I: What do they want themselves? R: And themselves they suggest like knitting, they were knitting; there was knitting for this tablecloths. I: OK. Embroidered? R: Embroidering, then there is also the designing, design like you can get a cloth and draw a flower then you use a machine for sewing it. I: OK. R: Those are most of the things that they need of— I: But those are not games huh? R: Yeah those are not games and they don’t want games, that’s what they don’t want, like indoor, like ludo. They don’t want playing ludo. I: OK. R: That they should do at least remove the games and if these are games they remain outdoor games. Like those ones they say indoor games. Indoor games though they don’t. Mostly they think them are wasting time. I2: Yeah, maybe they suggest for— R: They were like suggesting like indoor games to be like this knitting like… I2: This is not a game. This is part of the training. Training you know, like instead of tailoring. R: Yes. Yes madam but now the way they have put there, they have put indoor, indoor games. I: Outdoor games in the inside. R: They don’t want, instead of them they don’t want indoor games. www.integrityresearch.com 147 I2: No but you know that indoor games you can suggest for big people also they have (unclear)… you can bring for them like Scrabble where because they don’t have… R: They have even in their clubs, but they don’t they don’t play. They say that they don’t want. These things are for kids! I2: No, but you know Scrabble is when you have the spelling and words especially for those who are beginning it will help them in getting vocabularies I think. R: And mostly those are the things they always complain their training needs. I: Mmm. R: Those are things they don’t like. I2: Maybe like change the indoor games. R: We changed it to the indoor games what I was explaining before like they need now something that can engage in money. They don’t need like— I2: (interjects) Yeah but also they need something which they can also at least use their mind. You can bring them for example those who are, who don’t go I mean who are starting this literacy they can engage them and spellings, spell things you know they complete the… there are so many things… I: (Interjects) OK. We need now to move on and find out as a trainer, have you seen any changes in these young ladies? The adolescent girls since the training; before the training and after the training. Especially in terms of how you know the way they look at life. For example – are they able to speak openly, you know, more than before the training? Do they do that? You can say other things that you see them acting differently. R: Yeah I think this training, as a trainer when I see most of them are changing because at the first when we began this, bringing them to the club itself was even a problem. I: Mmm. R: And you tell them there is a training and they say ah, what’s that for? And when we engaged them and started training them, slowly by slowly, most of them are free like, there was like always there are big days here; when HIV is there, like there are many problems like they will say that the womens there at least they have to make a www.integrityresearch.com 148 drama and they also go and make some poems for their parents to see what is happening in BRAC. I: OK. R: Yeah. I: And when they, when they make the poems of course they speak before many people. R: They speak many people you know like parents day when we said it was the, it was the women’s day I think to be everyone is there and you, they are free and they can talk what is the ground. I: OK. OK. What about in terms of the life skills, I was still going to the life skills during the training of the life skills, some of them may have talked about issues of perhaps violence from their husbands or their relatives when they come. Do they say they have observed something lie this or still, nobody’s resisting their attendance you know. R: Yeah, because like for example the clubs have an… most of the trainings are held with some of them about… in BRAC here we have no agenda and that is they can come, they can fall into the livelihood training, the life skills and boarding like skill yeah but now they have known because sometimes the man can say I don’t want to hand over money. He has all the money. But since we engaged them in life skill and they come to life skill, and they come to life hood, and all these trainings they have received so they have also access they can, I can also do, I can also open my own account whereby that is what is happening now. Most of them have that idea of opening – they know some everyday when we come maybe we are talking about life skill because we discuss with them, and some of them they come with the views. Now things, during the club I was really dumb and I knew nothing but since I joined the club and I’ve known whole loads of people are discussing every day to us, I’ve known how to save my money. I’ve opened my account. I: That’s what they say? R: Yeah, I’ve opened my account. Most of them in the clubs here, like those ones who took loan they have accounts. I: OK. R: Yeah. www.integrityresearch.com 149 I: There are some maybe who have well, come to say I have opened my account but my husband is the one who is deciding whether I need to continue with the business or I need to buy this or I need to buy this. R: Yes there was Betty’s case, she came crying really, she took loan. She came crying – I’ve worked for the money every day and they want to take the money from her. Every day they ask her once to keep the money by himself. But we decided we put her down, we discuss, then we also call the husband, we discuss together with them until we are agreeing that the woman will not know that. She has to say this, she has got this profit, she has got this loss. So the money for the wife is working. Its not for herself alone, but it is for your benefit as a family. So yeah, they want to direct because you, you want to take only more…(unclear). Every time you take your drink then you come and you stab the woman. I: (laughs) R: Whereby— I2: Do you know mukwaya (unclear) (all laugh) R: Whereby you can stab the wife and she’s at least things when we interviewed the husbands, most of the things like, since this woman joined the club and by which weaknesses? Do you buy salt at home alone? That no. Do you at least buy alone? Or she also buys now and she buys also this and she said yes. Is story of yes because of warring. That’s the way she did that, so you cannot do it again. Yeah. I: Any other changes you may have observed in terms of OK that one is now in terms of control at least she’s able to, she was able to notice that there was something wrong with someone taking all the money because her business could have gone down. Are there cases for people you have trained coming even to the club to say you know, I wanted to go and buy my products like for the saloon, from Juba or I wanted to go and buy from somewhere and my husband is saying no you can’t go. Do you have these kinds of cases? R: Yeah. I: And would you explain a little bit? R: We have those cases like one of our members who is also taking loans from the office they, she had saloon. She used to bring her things sometimes from Kenya. She used to send her things to Uganda, by herself she could bring commodities but www.integrityresearch.com 150 she expand the saloon and it became powerful, even the World Bank has visited. Last year when they came and visited, and most of the visitors when they say they need to visit, the way they are visiting, she was the first person that was selected as she did small business, and she managed to get those things, but the men, when they beat their wife removed everything, went and sold all the blow dryers, everything is the salon. Whereby it became a problem to the lady and now again she is beginning it slowly by slowly. And there, the parents came in you know, to (unclear), and told the man if he didn’t say we are treating your daughter, it is better you leave. And let her begin, yeah not the one who gave her skills of learning. She got her own skills from BRAC whereby even the money she is using, it is not yours, it is loaned by… I: BRAC? R: BRAC. Whereby we have already seen the future of our lady, who is going to progress and she is going to help us. Why are you demolishing her like this? Huh? So I think he came in, the husband sold most of the things but the lady said that is not mine if you have sold but in (unclear) she had already finished paying her loan. And BRAC had to give again the second loan, that’s how she managed now to— I2: Start again? R: Start again. I: So is she still with the husband? Or— R: She divorced with the husband. I: So she has started afresh but she’s now on her own? R: Yeah, she started out fresh this last, this week. Last week she went to Uganda I think she has not yet come back. She went to bring the things, wigs, blow dryers, generator. I: OK. R: Yeah. I: That’s good, it’s a good actually what you are trying to explain to us is really important because it is already showing us some of the challenges that the adolescent girls might be meeting in the home, like that one of the husband now. R: Yeah like for example me heard something about like, about to early pregnancy, now at least it has reduced. When we began, when we began the clubs, that thing www.integrityresearch.com 151 was too rampant in 2010. But when we reached in the middle of 2010 when they got about life skill training, changes are there. Even most of the girls now pregnancy, you cannot get most of the girls in the clubs now that pregnancy, forced marriage from the parents because we face from them sometimes after training here we go and share there is a parents meeting in the clubs. We go and we share with them mothers forum, we can call mothers alone, we discuss with them what is going on for the programme and how they have to control their girls. And I think most of the changes really when I see among them the clubs, and they’re on the training, there is some great change. I: And are the girls receiving any challenges? Because so far we have just talked about the husbands and maybe the immediate relatives. What about in the community? Does the community think is the community also a challenge to the girls progress? R: No, no. The community is appreciating because most of, if I see the community was like Agnes, the community would have not come in. Like the violence like the man did there to the woman. The community came in and I think the community is there strongly supporting what BRAC is doing in their community. I: OK. So what specific lessons can you say you have learnt from this programme being a trainer? Anything you can say, OK, in this programme I have learnt this? R: In this programme, me have learnt how to train. That is one, then even about life skills, life skill, even though I didn’t receive that training, it has changed my mind. I will know that if I do this, if I go to maybe pregnancy. If I conceive before my child is still young like this, it will give me problems. Then I have known by that, I’ve known how to give care for my children. I’ve known how to save some money although I didn’t know how to save money also myself. Since I came into this training when we were taken to Juba, for the train of trainers, I was able also to open my account. I: Ah, OK. R: Yeah. I: And there’s no opposition to it from your husband? R: No. I don’t have any problem with my husband. Because he is someone also who is educated, someone who can understand, because when I came to him, I told him, when we went to Juba we were told we are going for life skill training, then when we www.integrityresearch.com 152 came was telling us, you explain what were you discussing there. Then when I was telling him, what first came to his mind he said sincerely from life skill about to, early pregnancy is correct, I’m supporting you go for family planning. He’s the one who suggested me to go to family planning. I: Oh, that’s good. R: Yeah. I became happy then when we came to micro-finance, I studied targeting. We were taken for micro-finance training, when I came back I started explaining to you, I said this little money we are gaining every day from Hoyaday (unclear), we have at least 20 pounds. We also say we put down. I also want to join the centre because there is those groups there in the area. You can contribute 150 pound, maybe eight n the group. 150 they give one month to another person, another person for eight month. Then he told me your ideas are not bad, you can, you can go on. I joined also that issue of Sandu Sandu (unclear). At last when I was given that money from our group, I got around 950 pound and I was like telling him this money is too much. So now we cannot keep this money in the house, so let me also counter; how do they open? Because it’s also working in their county, how do they open their account? He was the one who took me to the bank, then he went and told me you go to the other table, you can’t discuss with those people, for him its going (unclear). So he told me you can bring two passports, I went, I brought my two passports there, even my account to them I did not show him my account number, the account number I was given, when they told me OK you have opened your account now. You put in 150 pound, I put 150 pound to those people so I was left with 800 pound. Out of that money, immediately I deposited the money. I told those people, I don’t have to deposit this money,, you show me that I have to deposit the money (Laughs), then they were now directing me, and they said have you gone through micro-finance? And I said yes, I’ve learnt about profit, savings and losses, I’ve now known about all those things. Now I want to say, I wanted to save my money now, but then they showed me procedures of saving the money. I am also free, I can save my money whenever I receive it from the office, I can show him on the table – this is the money I received. This one will go to my account, this one will be for family use, this money, I’m giving you this, this one also go to my account, this one I will give to my mother. I’m selling beer, that money I’m getting every profit, every profit I’m getting from that, that’s what I’m saving for the account. www.integrityresearch.com 153 I: OK. That’s very good, now I want to, that was a very interesting case that you have told to us because it shows us you know, that you have told us your whole life history, you know, with this programme. This is why I did not want to stop you because I was willing to listen, listen, listen and listen. Very interesting. Now I want to ask you how do you think, I mean what do you think about boys being involved in such a programme? R: Yeah most of it, especially now, boys really complain. Why is it that BRAC is only concerned for girls? Why are they neglected? Then we told them, slowly by slowly, next time, also, the boys would be involved. And by now the organisation or the volunteer that has given these girls, who has opened clubs for these girls, I think for these boys, the go ahead will be there in some years to come, but we have to be patient. And most of them are interested, like when they’re playing, they also come in football because we have also in clubs football, volleyball and we have netball. So most of them come in also to play and they also say even if you don’t want us, we know that BRAC does not want boys. But we can come and at least train you because how you can play. (Laughter) R: But every time they are really crying, they also are interested to join the club. I: Now if they were to come, what do you think they should focus on if they brought in the boys? What would be the areas? Would they teach the same things that they are teaching the girls? Or the boys would have their own… R: When I see would not also have their… when I see also they have to undergo the same, the same way. Like opening the safer place for them, they come to life skill, life hood, then they should know step by step to change, to change their lives you know boys sometimes they are rough, they’re rough. Some of them they can intend to come and can engage themselves to, instead of mixing them with the ladies, some of them will come and continue to spoiling ladies, and pregnant ladies, but now when they get in the training, I think that will not come. Whereby they are supposed to undergo the same, the same way that girls begun. I: Ah-ha. So you are actually suggesting they should have their own separate adolescent boys club? R: Well, but I don’t see that they should be separate. I most likely think, if they would be mixed I think the club would be very strong. www.integrityresearch.com 154 I: Very strong because they would now understand the girls? R: They would now understand the girls because if you said the girls would be separated in their own club, the boys also in their own club, they will still go and interact somewhere or meeting somewhere, whereby it is good for them to be used to girls also be used to boys and then boys also become used to girls. Because when we sit in the class, you train as a trainer, you train them and you have to explain to them this thing, we have to do this like now about stopping early pregnancy that, that, this goes straight talk. You open straight talk debates, you engage debates, you put also straight talk whereby BRAC was not having debates, we wanted to have, we have now in clubs, we have debate, we open debates in (unclear) clubs. Straight talk, some of them they can go and talk from the, they used to go and talk to the present from the radio. I: Ah, OK. The girls have been talking on radio? R: Yes! Radio, the girls can go to voice 95.7 or they can go to Emmanuel. I: (Laughter) Sure. R: Yeah. I: OK. So what were some of the things they were talking there? R: Most of the things were the rights, the rights of the girls. I: Ah-ha. That’s very good… R: They can discuss about the rights and about gender, about gender. I: OK. R: Or where women, women neglected like men, why are most of their rights, their rights the men decide the rights of women; why? Then they also discuss about to parents to stop, to stop forcing their girls to marriage. Because you can force a child to marry, at the end, you have paid the cost and you have become a (unclear) from there. Whereby it is good you make your girls to engage to school when they finish, give her own choice. Give her own choice to choose who him have to marry. Because if you force someone to marry and she don’t have interest for that person, it will brought lots of woe. That’s most of the girls in our communities. I: OK, now finally, what are some of the things maybe you have already answered this, but just a general improvement that you think the programme can, can do, to improve this? What do you think, how do you think the www.integrityresearch.com 155 programme can be, and in that case you would actually just be telling us recommendations on this programme for its future. R: I think most of the things like I remember I explained it before, like most of the trainings like at least they should improve by giving girls most of their trainings like if they can, like Naseem (unclear), like Naseem (unclear), like those ones who have reached to see like most of the people I have reached from senior four. Drop outs from senior four. Some you can get from senior three, whereby here in Sudan if you have that certificate you can go for Naseem (unclear) course, teaching like this Nassary (unclear) schools. I think if those things can be engaged like trainings for some good, good man like he is given a training like driving or constant man which is supposed to be held for training, I think the programme will run smoothly and… I: OK. OK thank you very much Jacinta, you have been really, really great, to give us a lot of information and I just want to keep you to continue like that because there are not many girls who have been very, very, active the way you have explained to us. So I want to congratulate you and thank you very much. R: Oh, thank you too. I2: Thank you very much. R: You’re welcome. I2: It was really, you told us most of the things, OK. I: Has it stopped recording? I2: Yeah, it’s stopped recording. END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of 13523 Torit Logute ADol leader _0010 Date: 23 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent I: OK. Now we can start. Welcome to our meeting, ah, I would like you first of all to introduce yourself, but before you do that we would like to let you know who we are. My name is Mable, I come from Integrity Research, this research firm is doing qualitative research on how the BRAC programme has been www.integrityresearch.com 156 doing and when we talk about the BRAC you know that we are referring to the adolescent girls initiative. And so we are here, and happy to discuss with you how the programme has been going on. Some of the things that you have seen, that have worked very well, and what you may see to have worked differently. But first of all let me ask my colleague to introduce herself. I2: OK. Thank you, my name is Christine Jada I think it is not the first time we are meeting, we have seen you, we have met before. So I and my colleague we are doing a survey conducting research to know about the programmes of AGI in Torit. So please feel free and we are going to talk to you. I: Yeah. Tell us now your name and introduce yourself as well. R: OK. Stella Supprice (unclear) I’m the adolescent in off Lamuche (unclear) club, I came to know BRAC in 2010 when they did for us a survey in our area. They did survey then I succeed to become the adolescent leader. Then they opened a club in our community. I: Mhmm. So can you tell us a little bit about what this club has been doing? R: OK. We are really doing some trainings in the BRAC. We have some components. First of all, we begin by opening a safe place for adolescent girls, after that we did life skill training, livelihood training, we have financial literacy training, we have micro-finance and then we have community awareness. That one is (unclear). I: So, having gone through that programme, what would you see as the, the major strengths of the programme? R: Actually the programme is really, really going well. By then before the programmes these girls in our community were really stranded, but when they opened the club, we were really trained; some trainings on HIV, early pregnancy, family planning and rape. And we encouraged the girls to get some improvement this time. I: OK. R: Very well. I: Anything else that you can single out that was specific to the programme that has helped the girls do well? R: Yah. The livelihood training, we really did some training, computer training, catering, small business, agriculture trainings, ah and it gives you some loans for doing business. And some of our girls succeed; if you go like in the market, you will www.integrityresearch.com 157 get most of those girls who are doing business or saloon, those are girls who are being trained from BRAC and they are even, those who are doing tailoring, they have their place and those were trained by BRAC. They are doing their tailoring there. And even like we have one of our girls who did computer training, and she’s now working in UNAMIS dealing with computer, and there’s another one in Hotel Torit so we really gain a lot from BRAC. I: Ah, very good. What about any weaknesses? Have you seen any weaknesses about this programme? R: No, no. The weakness that I have seen only. There is not any weakness, but there are people also in our community that are interested to join this programme but there is no way because BRAC there is only 30 people in the club. Like in… (unclear) there are people more than 30. They could even come to the club and get the programme, but for them to do any training, they are not given training. So they are really interested to join the group. I: So what I’m hearing, you say, perhaps to, you know, to, to expand the programme one of the weaknesses is that the programme cannot expand to include all people who would want to be part of it, cannot involve everybody isn’t it? R: Yeah. I: Everybody that wants… R: Yeah. Everybody who wants, but the programme cannot include everyone. I: OK. R: There only are 30 members, yeah. I: But do you see… maybe you can explain to us if you see any opportunities; how people can participate in the programme in the future. Are there any opportunities how other people can participate? Or even opportunities for you as the adolescent girls and adolescent leaders. Do you see, what do you see as that can happen, that can improve the welfare of the adolescent girls? R: That will happen. But before, girls are really getting pregnant, ah, and that but now they have really improved because of those trainings that BRAC are giving them. I: So, with that understanding, you see it as if it can help in terms of being able to, you know, for the girls to continue with their education for example? www.integrityresearch.com 158 R: Yeah. And by then there are people that are not even interested to go to school. I2: Yes. Continue. Can you tell us more about this? How they become interested to go back to school? R: Because, because of the (unclear) they are given, there are some people in there their parents never wanted them to go to school but before they came to us and said we should go and convince their parents. Go with our (unclear) and try to convince the parents in cases like this the importance of education and the benefits so their parents could allow them even to go to school. I2: OK. So you have also been trained to, to talk to the parents and of those girls. R: Yeah. I2: So later on they were convinced and they went back to school. I: OK. I want to find out if there are any major challenges about the programme. Do we have any resistance? People who don’t like the programme? Or who are making it difficult for the girls to stay on the programme? R: The programme, the programme is also going well but what we are lacking is also some people they did the training, but they have not benefitted. Like the adolescent… like if you did computer, it is very easy for you to forget computer. At least if you need some, something like computer to be work for them so that forget these things. But ever since they did the computer training, they have even forget; they did not get work so they are, it is like for them they are saying even there is no use to do computer course with BRAC yet. Computer is easy to be forgot yeah. I: Mhmm. Any other challenge? Do you have any other girls that have reported vast difficulties in coming to the club because somebody does not want them to come? R: No. I: No, not at all? R: No. I: OK. What about within the community? Do you see any person opposing the programme? R: They’re, they aren’t opposing but they are saying that why is it that the programme is only for girls? How about them boys? Even sometimes, the boys, www.integrityresearch.com 159 when we are doing our training they will come and contradict with our training; ah this nonsense, what are girls supposed to learn, that way. I: (Laughs). R: Its like they want the programme to be like for both boys and girls. I: But what is your own opinion about that? R: My opinion would be they should also be included yeah. Because we also have some poor boys in our community who are just relaxed and they are doing nothing, so I want also the programme to continue even including boys. Yeah. I: Hmm. OK, that’s quite important for you. Now I want to come to, specifically the trainings… I2: Can I ask; if you want boys to be included in this programme, how? Is it going to be the same? Or do they have different activities or you want them to be having their own programme? Or mixed programme? R: It can be a mixed programme, like the indoor and the outdoor games and even these held together. They should also be included, the trainings that you are doing really have some purpose in the community, but you cannot even go for a single training, so they should at least be given a chance to go for TTC (unclear) at least, or medicine training and driving. So that kind of things. I: Mmm. How will the, the involvement, how will boys and girls being involved together in the programme be a better choice than if you have got boys separate and girls separate. Why is it important for you? Because you are saying that it is better if you are with them. Why do you think that is a better option? R: That we should be together with them? I: Yes. R: Of course there are some important things that include boys and girls, they should share. Yeah. I: OK. Now let me come to specifically the trainings that you received with this programme. R: Yeah. I: Maybe you can tell us what you think about how the trainings were conducted, and the materials that were provided, what do you think about this? www.integrityresearch.com 160 R: Like people who did catering, they were only given certificate. And also the business training are given something like ‘how many kilos of sugar…’ or something like that, or charcoal or sugar or soaps for them to start their business. For us who did computer training, we were only having one computer which is like this one, so we would practice. We should always come to BRAC and practice there. After the education, when we got job, that’s when we start (unclear) this computer. But something like when you are going for training there’s nothing that is given to us like allowance, there’s nothing. Only we go from our homes, we did the training, we come back home. I: OK. I want to take you back to how you became a leader, how were you selected to become an adolescent lead? R: It was through survey. I was surveyed from the community there were some questions that they were asked, and we were taken, we were trained from BRAC, in their office for five good days, yeah. I: So, first of all, you were, you were selected out of a survey and then you were trained on leadership? R: Yeah. I: What are some of the things you can remember about leadership that are helping you as an adolescent leader? R: First of all, they tell us that one of the qualities of being a good leader. We should respect ourselves, we should come on time, we should do exactly what we were told. We should be patient, and that kind of things. I: OK. R: They told us that club would start from four to six and we should train the adolescent girls exactly what we were trained. Yeah. I: OK. Maybe I should, I should also and find out also from you some of the good things you find from being a good leader for the adolescent girls. What do you find being so good about being a leader of the adolescent girls? R: By then I was really, I was very stubborn somehow, I could not even get to what my parents are telling me. But since I have become a leader, I have realised myself and other people. Yeah. www.integrityresearch.com 161 I: OK. So it has taught you some good lessons to be a leader, like you know you are a role model and if you want people to respect you, then you must respect them. R: To respect people, yeah. I: OK. That’s very good. Any challenges you are experiencing from being a leader for the adolescent girls? R: No. The challenges I am getting sometimes we might tell people to come in the club at 4, but the others will say I’m busy, what what what. Then the people from BRAC will call and to that we are not calling people on time and what, what. And that people from the area are not getting to us. Make them also want to come on time and say, I’m busy; I’m doing this, I’m doing this. Unless you call them and convince them by phone, that’s when they’ll come. But it’s not a challenge! (Laughs). I: (Laughs). Now, during the trainings, I want to take you back to the trainings because one of the trainings that you have already told us is that you are trained on how to be a good leader. And I also want to find out from you whether there were any, whether there are any sensitive issues that you discussed and how you can be able to, to resolve them or to solve the problems, especially those affecting girls. Because being an adolescent leader, there are so many things that you will come across. So maybe girls have got a problem, maybe they disagree… all these. How, how have you addressed that? R: Yeah. We have a committee when we opened the club, we have what we call a disciplinary committee, we have, these one are from parents, we have chair person, secretary and so on. So when we have that kind of problem, we call the disciplinary committee, we sit together and then we solve the issue. Yeah. I: What about the challenges of operating the club itself? Do you have any difficulties? R: No, we don’t have any difficulties, but… I: Go on. R: But the challenges is that we are only facing in the club, we are supposed to have everything. I: Everything? www.integrityresearch.com 162 R: We are supposed to have everything like a basket for water and so on, so those kind of things. But sometimes we are not given those things. When people are in the club, you get everyone all together; I’m going to a home, or I’m going to take water, or what, what what. I: So there is no water during that club time? R: Yeah. I: And given the fact that— R: Water not given on their accounts, water. I: Ah-ha. Anything else? R: No. I: OK. What about support of the community? Does the community support the BRAC club? R: They don’t support. I: What do they say? R: They don’t support. They are only saying this BRAC club are, these are corrupt people who work there. Yeah, like in terms of loan wise that when girls are given loan, they are supposed to pay you… by adding another money on top of that one… I: Oh, the interest. R: Yeah the interest. I: (Laughs). R: Why, should not happen. They are supposed to be given that loan and when they do their business they are supposed to return back exactly the amount they are given, but not the interest. I: (Laughs). R: The community, they are saying that BRAC is just a business institute. (Laughter). R: It is a business organisation—that is what they are saying. I: OK. Any other comments you would like to give us? R: No. I: Otherwise thank you very, very— R: Ah the comment that I wanted to give you only, you should at least get us some training really, that can take two years, three years like that maybe. TTC, medicine, driving courses. Those kind of things. Yeah. www.integrityresearch.com 163 I: OK. Otherwise, thank you very much Surprise (unclear). It has been a pleasure talking to you, you have given freely the information that you know. R: Yeah. I: About BRAC. We wish you all the best in the future. R: Thank you, we’ll meet next time. I: Thank you. I2: Yeah, thank you very much. R: Thank you too. I2: Nice to meet you again! (Laughter) END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of 130524 Torit – Malakia FD Parents Date: 24 May 2013 I = Interviewer T = Translator R = Respondent I: Good morning all of you. How are you? How are your families? OK. My name is Mable Isolio. I’m from, an organisation called Integrity Research which is conducting, which is finding out some information about BRAC activities. Let my colleague also introduce herself and the interpreter. T: Her name is Christine Jada, she’s working together with Mable, she has come to speak to us, to ask of you about your children as your children are involved in the activities of BRAC. T: She wants you to feel free and don’t fear, and to participate in this for I hope we want you to expand this programme, we want to expand this programme to go ahead. When we hear from you I think it will make the programme to go ahead. I: OK, thank you. I: Thank you very much. I want to tell you that we are here just to discuss. It is not investigating, just to discuss a few things concerning BRAC. www.integrityresearch.com 164 I: You are very important people because BRAC, you have, you adults are a part of this programme. I: Feel free, and we are going to make this discussion very brief. I: But first of all, we need to know your names, and how many children you have. T: She’s called Jan Julia T: She has nine children. Jan Julia, she has nine children. T: Girls are five and four. I: Boys? T: Boys I: And how old? T: She’s forty…. Thirty-nine, yes. I: Thirty-nine years? I2: She’s called Mary Nelson. T: Mary who? I2: Nelson. T: Mary Nelson. T: You have seven kids? T: Four boys, three girls. R3: Theresa. T: Theresa actually? I2: Theresa who? I2: Aktioni. I2: Theresa Aktioni. T: Five kids. I2: (translates to respondents) T: She does not know her years. I: Mhmm. OK T: Yomjoma. I2: Yomjoma? T: Yomjoma. (Laughter) T: Why? She has one. www.integrityresearch.com 165 R4: Agnes Iteng. T: Agnes Iteng. I2: Mhmm. T: Twenty-five years. R5: Susan. T: Susan who? R5: Susan Sissto. T: Susan Sissto. T: Five kids. T: Joyce, Joyce. R6: Joma. T: Joyce Joma. T: She has two kids. Twenty-seven. I: OK, we can begin our discussion now that we know you and you know us. I: We would like to find out from you, how you learnt about BRAC. How did you know about BRAC? I: Mary, do you want to start us? T: She come to know BRAC when BRAC brought some activities to girls. They trained girls and gave them some activities, and girls who would are trained, to be self, in a self-controlled way. Things like that. To respect maybe their parents at home to do good things. She came to know BRAC in that time. I: In that— T: Since they entered. I: OK. Any other person? Agnes. I: Agnes? Agnes? How did you know about BRAC? T: She also talk of knowing BRAC the same way to this lady. In the time when they were training children to read, to go to school to do work, she came to know about BRAC from there. I: OK. Maybe Natalina can now tell us who decided her daughter should join BRAC? (laughs) T: She’s saying that first, maybe before BRAC sent some of their members to come and train their girls. They call girls as they were given training. In that training, that was good girls, so it was good so they decide to join. www.integrityresearch.com 166 I: Mhmm T: They understand the training well, that’s why they have joined to that training. I: What about Susan? How did your daughter decide? Who decided? Because BRAC maybe came but how, who decided that it is OK, it is good for her to join? T: She’s saying like this: There were some people who were coming to talk about the training and all that. So they come to her and say; mum I need to join these people, may I go to join them? Then she said its OK, you can go. She allowed the daughter to join the training until now she see the goodness of it. I: OK. Maybe another parent can tell us, how BRAC has affected their daughters’ life? Do you think the daughters’ life has changed? Or has not changed? How exactly is it… (Laughter) I: I see you’re looking at me and smiling! R: No, this is really good news. I: Yeah OK. T: She’s saying that it was in 2010 she’s… since they have the training she saw that the life of the children were changed. You know when girls are fifteen years? There is another step and now they have entered. So since the training of BRAC entered, it has trained their children to know at least something, and in that she has seen that the life of the children has changed and they can even be able to know how to sell things, and they can even get things like tomatoes or eggplant and they plant and if the thing’s ripe, they take to the market, they know how to sell and they get something which can benefit themselves. She saw that it was a good change that she has seen from her children and she would like it to go ahead. She’s urging the organisation to continue like that for a few years to come at least in Sudan and go ahead… I: I want her to tell me something before I ask another person, on the behaviour of the daughter. How is she now behaving in the home? In the relationship with the rest of the family, and other members of the community? T: She’s saying like this… I: Hmm… www.integrityresearch.com 167 T: That what she has seen from her daughter, she has become a good girl in her home and she can even talk to the neighbour if she saw that there was anything bad, she’ll talk to the neighbour. She, she can even know how to use pens. When she is in administration, she knows how to do. And there is a lot even she can do even when she saw somebody on their way, she can knit (unclear) whilst she has something she can help. That’s why she is saying that her daughter has totally changed. I: OK. Now I need to move to the next question just to ask what about you yourselves? By BRAC coming to this place, how has it affected your lives? And maybe Theresa can tell us this? I2: Let me just ask, because the first question they didn’t, because she, I think she must (unclear) that is why she answered without them knowing the question. T: OK. T: Mmm, it’s OK. I2: Whom did you ask? T: Theresa I: Ask Theresa. I2: They say maybe they are willing to participate, so… T: Yeah, so they can talk, it’s not just us. (Laughter) T: It’s OK, let me explain. I translate to you what she has said. She says to herself she hasn’t, they are some good things of what BRAC have done to her children… to her daughter, like when she was given sugar, her daughter was given sugar, she brought the sugar and she tried to sell it out. When she sell it out, she decide she got some money and decided to get some bamboos. Bamboos now she’s selling, and she even realised that that money is helping them even at home. If she does not have, the daughter will pick and give her that mum buy with this and also if some other things are not there, the daughter is, but they are spending (unclear) fully at home, so it’s very nice. And to herself even she feel like to join them. (Laughter) T: And also to participate with them because she saw the thing is going ahead. So, she was, mum (unclear) was asking her that and to your reaction, what is your reaction to it? She said I feel like to join them. www.integrityresearch.com 168 I: OK. T: She’s even happy because of them. If something has happened like that in your home, would you not be happy? Is what she responds I: OK. That’s very good. Now, we want to find out; before BRAC came to this community, where did the girls, the girls used to meet? (Laughter) T: She is saying like this: She is saying, to her as a mother before even BRAC came here, she did not so want the girls to meet somewhere as they went for discussion, maybe for, maybe for their activities or what. Unless the girls maybe they saw it was these ladies who like drinking, like move at night and all that. They are the only ladies who can call themselves and go… (Laughter) I2: Lukulele (unclear) means the, the— T: The night-workers. I: Night-workers. I2: No! Yeah but this are the bad group? T: No, No. I2: They’re bad, not from this, they’re bad. I2: This is bad language to call ‘Lukulele’. I: Oh bat! B, A, T. I2: Yeah, B, A, T. I: Yeah because in the night it is now working it is day. (Laughter) I2: This is Lukulele! (Laughter) T: The only girls they normally see they can form a group and they discuss where they are business. In case maybe for going to Corabs (unclear) to do some other things but to their girls, they didn’t saw something like that before. I: Mhmm. Anybody else who can say something about the girls? Yes? T: There is no place, she is saying there is no place any more— I: There’s no place that they used to meet? What about the boys? R6: She says the majority is for boys… I: But where do they go to meet? www.integrityresearch.com 169 T: She is saying that it is not all boys, but it might be boy from this house, and this, and this, and this. They might also meet somewhere just here in the door, as they chat, they discuss but it is not in a crowd that they make themselves many dangers (unclear)… discuss about themselves. I: Now I would like to ask all of you, if you think that it is important, if you think it is important also for the boys to have a place to meet the girls have a meeting place. You think it is good for boys also to have? To meet the way girls meet? I: We are asking about if the boys have a club like the ones for girls; do you think it is important, that it is good for the boys also maybe for BRAC to have a club for boys? T: They say they want to like that… T: She is saying like this: she is saying it is very good for boys to be trained also, because even these girls, before RBAC come they normally also go with those boys there, in the, in the river. (Laughter) T: The river what? The riverbed in KInatye (unclear). They go and discuss their things there but since BRAC entered with some strong training like this, girls become busy, they have no way of going again there and all that and they become their own, they benefitted in their own way. So for them as mothers, they are also urging you to give that to boys so boys have at least to change. Unless. it will depend now also to them when you bring this club, or maybe training them. Who ever has ears, will get changed (unclear). And whoever reviews will remain because most of them are not moving to school because of such kind of discussion. They can go and discuss there and they forget. I2: They are taking back? T: They are taking back and all that. T: They can’t get time off going to school, so as parents, or as mothers, they are also urging you to do that for boys. I think it will help much. I: And before BRAC, they used to go there with the girls in the river and take a bang (unclear) and they do— T: Yes, that’s what the lady say. They normally going there before BRAC came. I: OK. www.integrityresearch.com 170 T: But when BRAC came, they gave that training to ladies, so ladies decide to leave them only. Alone. They are to continue with their things, and ladies become at least in their home (unclear). I: And so when they had taken the bank, maybe when they were there, they also used to come from there with the pregnancies. T: Yeah, that’s what is there. (Laughter) T: You know there are some ladies maybe who got pregnant from there, she is pregnant, the mother is saying that she is expected, at last long she has aborted. Then when the mother say ‘why did you do this?’ she said she will teach you can bring your friends to come and explain you their mother. That’s how they were doing, but now I think the mothers are gaining much from the training— T: She said you will not get the goodness out, you will not even get the truth if your daughter is pregnant she will be pregnant for one month, two, they’ll go and remove it. You will not even get some, I don’t know, to pay that your daughter had been… I2: Pregnated somewhere? T: Pregnated somewhere. You will not know that. When you want to talk, you will be beaten. I: Right, I see yes. But now I want us to, because this is very interesting talk, I want to find out; what are some of the challenges you have faced because of your daughters becoming a member of BRAC? Being involved with the BRAC, are there any problems you have encountered just because now they are part of BRAC? T: She says since the training entered, they become happy and they are happy more for whatever their children have gained. And they don’t see anything bad because their children are now beneficial to them; they bring something. If your daughter is bringing something that makes you (unclear), are you not happy? That’s what she said there. Now happy because of that. I: OK. Now I need to find out if they think that the programme can be made better in any way, or it is enough what they see? T: She’s giving us an example like what BRAC have done to her; what BRAC are doing to girls. BRAC are training girls in tailoring, some have known something maybe like engineering, that’s what she’s saying. Tailorings; she has seen that one, www.integrityresearch.com 171 its improving girls. She likes the things to go ahead and also for her she can now see if the daughter now is doing like this, the way you are doing it’s OK, I won’t want you to continue with it. This one, don’t take it, this one do it, it’s good – it will make you to be someone. That’s what she can do to her daughter right now since she has seen the training is good as motivate the children. And for them, when you are here and them saying what, what, what there, they were saying that they even wanted it to be more and more training to be expand, and they also want even for themselves to join. They want also to join in that group. (Laughter) I: They should have a BRAC for mothers? T: Yeah, they should also have BRAC for mothers! (Laughter) T: And whilst like this lady is crying much— I: This one? T: Yes, she’s really saying, ‘boys, if you can do this, boys also it will be very helpful in those areas, and she is really urging for boys to participate in that…’ I2: Let me add… I2: I think what you are saying is very important; you still have the life skills. Because there are still some girls who are still misbehaving then more will listen to their mothers. So if that life skill topics and behaviour or whatever could be added so that I think that for her it is not yet enough because some of them are still not respecting, so for her it is very important. I: So some of the girls that are going on the training are not fully— I2: Are still yeah… I: They are still not changing totally. I2: Totally. I: Yeah. I2: This refers to those who are with the group at the river, whatever. I: The ones that came from the river? I2: Yeah. I2: So, still you know they will take time to change? T: And slowly by slowly… www.integrityresearch.com 172 I: Now, I wanted to find out also if there are problems in this community that are affecting the girls? T: She say the only problem facing them, it is about their girls. For these girls, even if they are trained like this, they are still making some mistakes of going with some men and they get pregnant. But they want for their, really need, they want these girls at least to go to school and to study well and at least to come and do something for the better life. That is what they are seeing. That is a problem facing their girls. They are still only running with the boys. I: Even after the training they are still running with the boys? Some of them? T: Some of them. T: OK. She’s talking… this is what she’s saying: she’s saying, to the ladies who are trained, at least they have a chance. But also they are in their families, like in your home, you have four girls. I: Yeah T: But only one boys but (unclear). She is explaining that there’s the group who have not yet…. They are still doing such a kind of thing, they are running with the men and all that I: Mmm. What about the ones that have, the ones that have gone through the programme? Are there some that still have not… Is that what she is saying? I2: She is saying no, because those girls are now very careful, they don’t even have time because they have those activities and maybe some of them say, it’s better if I keep away from the men because maybe BRAC would come with another activities— I: And they will find me pregnant? T: I will not let it hinder me from going. I: Oh, so they are… it is their sisters now? I2: Yeah, and this one is saying that most of those girls who are left out because their parents are unable to pay school fees, so this is now to say now what is the use of me staying at home? It’s better I get a man. But compare the man’s… the men are deceiving them, getting pregnant and no one is taking care of them. It is still bad today. www.integrityresearch.com 173 I: OK. Now there are times when there are perhaps conflicts or differences between you, maybe you call between you and your daughter. How do you resolve this problem? How do you solve it? T: OK. T: She is saying in her family, this is what she used to do. Because she is a widow, she has her children and they used to stir some problems, maybe, if she saw her children are quarrelling, they quarrel to her that you don’t give us money and you do what, some even decide not to go to school, some say they will do this and this for themselves, she looked at it like this and said it’s OK, you will call them and say let us go inside the house. She will call them all, when they would enter in the house, she would lock the door. Then she will ask them a question, she will say: ‘you, do you know that you don’t have a father at this house? It’s only me. If you have decided to do this bad thing, you have decide to do this…’ So she first give them like this, like that maybe to threaten them, then after that she will start to advise them. ‘I want you people to think, over your life, she will start to advise them; ‘don’t quarrel over money, don’t quarrel over this. You have decided to do this – think of your life before you act.’ So she will begin to advise them first, then after that she will start to say to them; ‘You? Go to the river. You, whoever wants to go to the river, go. If you want to go to collect firewood you go. If you want to go to school, to those of you that want to go to school, please go to school’ like that. And that’s how she knows normally solves her problems at home. Then they will stay in peace; she knows that at least in the home there will be a quarrel, they will quarrel and she will again solve that. And that’s how she normally solves her problems at home. I: OK. Now lets move to another level of the discussion, and I would now like you to ask, I mean I would like to ask you about income in the family. Who do you think should be responsible for bringing income in the family or how to maintain the family. Who do you think should be responsible to ensure food is given to the family, everybody eats, children go to school; who is supposed to do that in the family? T: She’s talking about herself, like she’s a widow, she’s a widow. And she’s the one taking care of her children because she has some orphans, they are with her and maybe a man will come and get her with those children. And then she accept that they stay at that home. She will not give all that burden to that man, that ‘you pay www.integrityresearch.com 174 their school fees, do what.’ She will take the responsibility of her house, she will go to, she will take whatever things like for brewing, she can brew, and to get food for her children. Because when she start saying to that man ‘I want you to start paying for school fees for these children,’ she can, he can decide to go, and say but these are not my children all. Maybe he asks to you, or maybe one of you. He can decide to leave you with the one you have. So what she can do? She normally go for water, for firewood to collect and sell, maybe like that. She can do something like maybe to make her home to go ahead. She does not have something like to say that this man can decide. She take good care of her family and— T: She’s talking, like for her and her husband, she’s not depending to all or whatever from the husband because, sometimes if the husband does not have, she can go and do some; she can go to the forest and collect firewood and sell and bring food at home, and if also the husband have to give. And if sometimes like maybe the husband is working and he’s not giving her something, she will not quarrel, but she will decide to go out and make some small business at least to bring the family (unclear) I: OK. Now I’d just like to find out because some of them, they are saying, we have heard that they are widowed, others they might still be having their husbands, but we want to find out the number of children they have, who decided they should have that number of children? Did they discuss with their husbands about the number of children to have? T: Neither the man or the women, they don’t decide. I2: Yeah, they don’t decide, they just continue giving to the last egg, or some of them, their husbands. (Laughter) T: She is talking about the training we are giving. She says in the experience she has realised the training is there, and all that, she is even advising the children not to give BAT the way she has given the series of children nine or there. For her, she was giving but maybe when this one is the other is six months. I: She is already pregnant? T: She is already pregnant. Before it even started moving, they had already given birth. And that’s why she was. And she was having a lot of children (unclear), during war. At the time that rebels come, she cannot able to carry them www.integrityresearch.com 175 I: OK. Now we want to find out how many of you have their daughters working, maybe owning a business, how many of you? T: She’s saying her daughter has a job at the library still. She’s now working… since the training at least at the moment whilst we are talking, she’s making a business in the market I: OK, what business? T: She started making tea, so when she gets some money, now she has decided to get, she is now buying bamboos. There is a place for buying bamboos in Kilyewu (unclear). She’s going right up to there to bring… she hired a vehicle and she sell them on the market. I: OK. Does the daughter have a loan? T: She took loan. I: She took loan? I: So how are you involved in her business? Maybe she can tell us because we are (unclear) now. How is she involved in her business? Yeah, how is she involved in the business of the daughter? T: She is saying for her, she has nothing involved in the business, but she’s just staying at home. But her daughter is the one bringing such a kind of thing. She’s the one who normally think maybe it could be too big, they could have to separate. She could be selling some and the daughter could be selling some. But at the moment it is only the daughter who has started (unclear). And the daughter is doing it there, and she normally brings her something to give to her mum – ‘this is yours.’ And also she has some small sisters or maybe brothers who are still in the school could say, ‘mum? Give this for this one.’ And this is how the daughter is doing (unclear). I: Maybe you find out from her also if her daughter, if she knows whether her daughter keeps, you know, has some savings T: OK. She is saying the daughter is doing like this like right now she has gone, then in the evening she will come and say ‘mum? This is what I need to get.’ Then the daughter will give to her to save. She is the one saving the money of the daughter. I: So she’s saving it? OK, OK. Now I want to ask the other ladies you can also tell us if your daughters, if they are involved in business as well? T: She’s saying for her, she has also the daughter who participated in this who was also taken to the training, she took also some, some loans from there. She make a www.integrityresearch.com 176 small, small business but the mother maybe was sick, the money helped the mother and that. And also she gave back and all the business is not now going ahead because… I: Is it because the daughter gave birth? I2: Yeah, but now because of that, she’s not doing the business. T: She’s not doing the business; she’s still at home. I: OK. I2: And the mother is sick, that’s why she can’t help her until now, maybe after. I: Sometime? T: Sometimes. I: OK. We want to finish this discussion by just asking you what are your hopes for your daughter in terms of jobs, education, and there’s this: we also want to know what some of your daughters, after the BRAC training, some of them went back to school? First could you tell us, are there some of your daughters that went back to school after the BRAC training? T: She’s explaining like this; she has counted like three girls… I2: Four, four plus… T: Four who have dropped out. Like (unclear) she drop out from senior one? She got married and all that. I used to see her going to school but nowadays, she is schooling here (unclear) the training. And these are the ladies she is also counting. So I like the way BRAC has been sending the daughter of this lady… I: She has gone back now? T: Yeah, she has gone back to school since she got the training. I: OK. Very good. So what are your hopes for these girls? What do you want them to do in the future? When you look at them as your daughters, there are things you are saying ‘I wish my daughter can become this.’ Can you tell us some of these wishes that you have for your daughter for the future? R: I want my daughter to learn better, to keep their school well. And will be somebody like somebody. I’m telling you, this morning. I’m telling you now, my daughter will learn well. The name of Winnie (unclear) that is my daughter. I: OK thank you. Thank you. T: She said in her hope, she really feel like if God hear her prayers, she wants her daughter to be a doctor. She wants her daughters to be as we are, to be able to talk www.integrityresearch.com 177 in a good way, some to be teachers, (unclear). If her daughter is one day sitting doing something like this, she will feel OK. I: OK, thank you very much… otherwise, thank you very much for giving us this opportunity to discuss with us about BRAC and the activities that your daughters are involved in. We want to pray that God bless you as you support these daughters. END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of 130524 Torit CMC Malakia West_0022 Date: 24 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent I: Good morning, how are you? R: I’m OK. I: And thank you for coming to meet us. We are a team of researchers from Integrity Research and we have come here to discuss about the BRAC activities, particularly the adolescent girls initiative. My name is Mabel. I2: My name is Christine, we work together. I: So maybe you begin by telling us your name, and if you are a committee member, you tell us you are a committee member for which club. R: I’m (name) I’m a committee member from Malakia North? I: Malakia North? R: Yeah. I: How did you come to learn about BRAC so that you came a committee member? R: Thanks a lot for asking that question; I’m sure it’s a productive question. I learned about BRAC because it has a lot of activities mostly for the people and services to the indigenous people and also a lot of things for sure the training and learning. I: What are some of the trainings that BRAC has conducted for the adolescent girls that you like most? www.integrityresearch.com 178 R: Hmm… This is extremely good. A lot of trainings. So many girls have been dropped from school; high schools, like senior four, six due to financial issues and therefore, BRAC has offered a training and skills, like sewing machines and also computer trainings and so many others. I: What about in terms of improving the general behaviour of girls? Do you know if their training has worked? R: So far, the improvement is there, because the little training they acquire, for those that have been there, the improvement can be seen. I: What specific improvement have you seen with the girls? For example in terms of behaviour. R: In terms of behaviour (unclear). I2: So you mean that, when they received training, no more early pregnancies and forced marriages? R: Yeah, I’m talking about those who’ve been… I2: Trained? R: Trained, but also the knowledge that they have acquired. I: OK, so, what are some of the areas of the training which should be added or should be improved? R: The other areas. Because there are a lot of things that I am appealing to the BRAC administration and management, at least if they could, because what they have acquired is not really enough. If they could add or establish institutions to encourage girls to go and acquire knowledge from there so… I: What do you mean by institutions? Established institutions? R: Yeah, the institutes. I: Like what? R: Yeah, what I’m talking about is the institutes. If the BRAC people could help them learning other things that could help them. I: OK what kind of institutions? Is it the school? Or training centre? R: Training centre. I: You don’t think that the offices and training centre are enough? R: I don’t think it’s enough because its impossible outside the clubs. I have a feeling that if such a training centre could be opened, I believe more and more and more of our girls would get knowledge. www.integrityresearch.com 179 I: Now, what is the effect of the AG programmes for your… For… I mean to say what are the effects of the programme for you personally when you start becoming a member of a community organisation, is there any personal or professional growth you gain from, from the trainings or activities the girls are doing or whatever you have seen? R: Yeah, I continue to realise for sure improvement that I have seen from our girls. There is nothing that I seeing from girls that they are (unclear) with exception… I: What have you gained? Yourself as a community organiser from the programme? R: Yeah, of course. I gain a lot, Yeah I gain a lot. I gain a lot of skills that have never passed through. I: Like what? R: Like of course, meeting girls, talking to them, so that is what I’ve gained. I: So now you can talk to them. R: Yeah. I: What do you always, what kind of advice do you, do you give them? R: Yeah, I start with… My advice to girls, what I always advise girls like my sisters. I talk to them they should avoid this issue of forced marriage. I do encourage them not to accept such kind of things in your life. This with a little education will make you able to do something. I: So, after talking to them like this, do you find still that the challenge those girls are facing in this community because of the, the AGI programme, the BRAC programme? R: Yeah, for sure challenges… I: Maybe in their homes and communities? Have you seen? R: Yeah, what I have seen actually from others because what encourages our girls today to get married in that age that a lot of charities they are facing. I: No, after they get the training, those girls, are they still having finding some challenges in their homes and in their communities? R: I don’t think. I don’t think. I: So you think it has reduced because of the training they have been given? R: Yes. Yeah. I: OK. So, now can you tell us, what are the weaknesses of this programme? www.integrityresearch.com 180 R: The weakness of this programme? I don’t think there are some weakness that I’ve seen. But if there is more training being given, the more knowledge they will gain, yeah. I: So you think the trainings are not enough? R: Yeah the trainings are not enough. I: OK, and what can you say about the inclusion of boys? Do you think that boys, that it is very important for boys to be also involved in this programme? R: Yeah, I think so, I think so because boys are idle, there is nothing for them to do. So I’m wondering; if the BRAC organisation also put boys there. I: Now, you say yes? Do you want them to be joined with girls to have one club with boys and girls or do you want them to have different clubs? And why? R: Yeah. Because joining the clubs together with the boys, girls and boys is not a problem. On the other hand, however, however, because other boys may think the other way round. But, often gaining that training that would be given to them I think they will not do other things. They are the right people to encourage others. I: OK now, you mean that when they are given the training, they should be given the training separately? Or some of the training they do it together, and others… R: No, I don’t mean that they should be given their own training. I mean separately. What I mean is they should come together and do activities together. I: Why? R: Yeah. The reason is that because you can share knowledge. Yeah they can share knowledge together, the girl that doesn’t know anything, the others will tell. This is what we have to do. Yeah, I think that’s all. I: Maybe I can now ask you about, challenges? Because you as a community…. What recommendations would you give for this programme? Recommendations for improvement for example? R: Yeah. I really appreciate the BRAC for offering this initiative to our people, so I really appreciate it and I am encouraged once a week, or once a month. I: The training should be… R: I mean the meetings, not the training, should be at least once a month. I: Meetings with the parents? The community members? R: Yes, the community members and the facilitators of the training. www.integrityresearch.com 181 I2: So to have, for example in this area, where BRAC activities is, do you mean that all the community members should come and attend a meeting? R: Yes, so they will be able to know exactly what BRACs will do. I: Now, I think the last question we would like you to ask you what is exactly your role? I2: As a committee member, what do you do? R: What do I do? Hmm… What’s my role? Of course I play a very big role in our care, so I’m implementing what is exactly being said by BRAC management and organisations. That is the role I am playing. Also, encouraging adolescent girls to avoid (unclear). I: OK, thank you very much for giving us your time, and we want to congratulate you for the role you are playing in the adolescent girls initiative and just pray that you continue doing the same to even share the same knowledge, information with many more people in the community at large. Thank you very much. R: Thanks a lot. M: OK, thank you. END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of 130524 Torit Continuation ISLAK-1 AGI girls_0008 DATE: 24 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent I: OK, let us go ahead. OK, the other thing that I would like to ask from you because you seem to be girls that are very much close together. I want to ask; how safe is it for you to move around? Like because for you, some of you go to school. I didn’t hear if some of you work, but I think some of you might have businesses isn’t it? I2: Yeah, do you feel… Not safe when you are travelling when you go to school? Do you sometimes fear that maybe something can happen to you when you go to school? www.integrityresearch.com 182 I2: Even when you have to travel outside of Torit? Maybe going to Juba, or going to Kampala, do you just do it freely? R: (Unclear). I: Let me now turn to the question of the boys because… R: (Unclear). I: Ah… Why are you looking at each other? Because there is something you want to tell us. Tell us, tell us – I’m like your mother. R: (Unclear). I2: It’s because this road, going from here to Juba, they are talking that if you are Dinka, when you go you will be killed. I: What is it? I2: Here, on Juba road, they said that if you are Dinka you will be called to come out and you will be killed. So there’s also a threat to their life. I: OK, so those that are Dinkas don’t want to go to Juba? I2: They realise that there is a trap laid down. R: The ones here on the road they stop the vehicles, and they ask if you are a Dinka, get out if you are a Nuer then they kill you. I: So they kill the Dinkas and the Nuers? I2: And the rest of the tribes, they leave them to go. I: Why are they doing that? R: Because they are hating themselves. Dinkas do. I2: Because they are coming from the same state, those people go and kill from there, you know, it is a revenge. I: OK, what about the boys? Because you are talking about your involvement with the club, with the BRAC club, but I don’t know where you see boys going to meet. Do you also see them going to meet? Do they have a place where they go to meet themselves? R: (Unclear). R: You’re saying yes? Boys normally meet and they talk about themselves. I: Do you know what they talk about? You don’t know? R: (Unclear). I2: OK, that is secret I: They are secrets? www.integrityresearch.com 183 I2: You know, for them, when they call each other to come for the meeting, they will talk there as they finish there. They will not go again, and boys are doing the same. I: OK… I2: The secret between them… END OF TRANSCRIPT Transcription of 130525 Torit - case study _0028 DATE: 25 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent I: Good morning. My name is Mabel Isolio. We are a team of consultants for Integrity Research. We have come to have a discussion with you about the activities of BRAC and particularly because you are a member of BRAC. I would like you to feel very free to talk with us because the information you will share with us will also help you but also other guys that are in the programme. I let my colleague introduce herself. I2: I am called Christine Jada. I am South Sudanese. We are a team and we work together about the activities (unclear). I: We would like to talk to you about the (unclear) of your life in business and we would like to begin by asking you. Tell us your name and then how old you are. R: Thank you so much. My name is Jacomina Bard, but she is called Susanne. 31 years old. No, I am not married. I was married but I have already divorced. But I have kids. I: For how long were you in your marriage? R: In 2007 she had conceived when she was 24, she was sent to her husband's home. She stayed there until 2009 and she conceived again. So they had a misunderstanding with the husband. The husband sent her to the parents. And the parents also, refused to stay with her. She has two children. I: A boy and a girl, or two boys or girls? www.integrityresearch.com 184 R: One boy, one girl. I: From when your father chased you away where did you go to? R: She has a friend who helped her. When her parents chased her away and also the husband chased her away. her friend decided to call, she went to her friend's home to stay there. He is a friend who helped her. I: Which year was that when she went to stay with her friend? R: 2010. I: So how long did she stay with her friend? R: She stayed at the home of the sister of her friend for one year. In that one year, her friend decided to tell her she come to land (unclear), there is training this and this. She joined in the field for one year. So she was given some seeds and she land. So she decides to tell when she was still at the home of her friend. There when she started bring things in the market, land and seeds. I: She did that with her brother (not sure)? R: Yes. I: Is it your brother that gave you the seeds? So she brought into (unclear) in 2011 or? R: In 2010 when she joined the BRAC when there was only a small budget. And then at the end of 2010, that's when those (unclear) come to implement things, training. So she entered also there for the training. I: So how she feels now from agriculture to doing what she is doing now, just selling clothes? (unclear). R: She started planting, she was given the tomatoes for the agriculture, she has also (unclear). She planted all and she tried to bringing to the market. She brought to the market selling and all that. In that, she get there was something she's getting and also it become hard for her to going to field. So she decided to come and sell maize and all that in the market. She starts buying from the people who are bringing maize and she will buy with them, there are four people selling with them, with the people, we say qurrya (countryside). She decided to be selling that and after that she started to also have (unclear), she was steeping something little by little. She decided to go to their village ((name), buy from the village in a cheaper way and come and sell from (name). So and then (unclear) she was having something, which is heavy. She went and borrowed a loan. And having that, then she decided to buy these products. www.integrityresearch.com 185 Since she was selling all these products. She also saw that until she would stay at people's home she went in where there used to give all the book. She went and asked but by good luck, she got someone who can give her, you can write your name and her name appeared also in a block. She was given a block. And in that block, she has to write that she needs to do (unclear) that she can't stay, that at the moment she stays with her children, she entered there and she will stay with her children in that house. That is where she is now. And she is… INCOMPLETE TRANSCRIPT Transcription of 130523 Torit Non participants HAI BATTERY_0017 DATE: 23 May 2013 I = Interviewer R = Respondent T = Translator M = Male I2: Let us start by introducing ourselves and say why we are here. I am called Christine Jada and I work with Integrity, we are here to conduct research for activities of AGI activities, with BRAC, and we are commissioned by the World Bank to do that. We are working together with my colleague she is called... I: My name is Mabel and I am also from Integrity Research. I2: This afternoon we are very happy to be with you. Please be free and introduce yourself to us. We agree that each and everyone will introduce his neighbour to us. This is how we are starting our introduction. Are you ready to start? R: My colleague is James Jungaro Norman … Class first one. Torit. Second class school, age 18. R2: My colleague here is called Baramens Thomas Aselia, he is not married and he is from class from class 8 in Sampresa. Age 17 year old. R3: This guy is Joseph Cisto. He is in primary Seven, Torit… His age is 19 year old. He is not married. R4: Ben Hasswan. Secondary School. Age 18 and he is not married. www.integrityresearch.com 186 R5: (Unclear) Married, 30 years old (unclear). R6: My colleague is Peter. He is 37, secondary school, he is not married. R7: My colleague is Siyah. Class S3. He is (unclear). Age 25 (unclear). R8: This guy is (unclear). Senior one. 18. He is called (name). I: Is he married? R8: No. I2: Thank you for the introduction. I think also that we will continue also.... I: Thank you very much for those introductions. We are happy to hear about what you are doing. And now to get more into the discussion, I would like to begin by asking you what are some of the things you like in this community. I think I'll begin with (name) to tell us. T: He says there are some good things here in... (unclear). People love each other. Also in this area they love each other, and (unclear). The work in this area I think is only three quarter of them. They all go to the gardens. They believe in digging for them to get their food. I: OK. Are those the only activities that the boys do in this community? I: Sabit you can answer that. M: He said also that in this are playing football and all that. I: OK. John, you also have something you wanted to add? M2: Now as we boys here, we are showing now girls they are playing football. Why we are not... This one. And there are some activities done by girls, why are they not for boys? Why boys? This is my question. I: That's very very good. I'm also interested to find out what duties the boys do at home in the communities? What do you do? Instead of asking us, we want to hear from the boys what they do at home. So if there are thing that you do not do, we shall ask you why don't you do that. I OK, Thomas. M3: (Unclear). I'm telling them that they want to answer that, the girls are saying no. We start from home, what are they doing. I2: John, do you want to continue here? M2: Actually, I am doing at home, we are digging also. We are clearing the bushes at home. And even digging around, so we can rear some animals. This is some activities that we do at home. www.integrityresearch.com 187 I2 What about helping in the house, to cook, to sweep the house, to clean the compound. Are there any boys who are doing that? (Name) would you like to do something? M3: Yes actually... Actually that one is common. We are doing such kind of work at home. Sometimes the girls will have like… our sisters, they are responsible at home. They don't want to do this work. Sometimes our mothers are not have time, we are going to (unclear). At the one school (something about payments?). We would like to go and dig in the garden and get some money for our school fees (unclear). I2 Now I also want to find out whether you can also cook or clean your house if your sisters are there to help them. Not to wait when they are not there. Do you also do this sometimes? M3: That is common. I2 Can you explain to me how you do it yourself in your home? M3: We are two boys at home. I'm the one who has just bringing the things... I: (Name), do you... what kind of work do you do in the home? M3: At home there... I have my sister, but she is not around. And me I just go around and (unclear - something about school). My sister got married (unclear). I go and dig the carrot to pay the school fees. When I don't have the money I will stay at home. I will help my sister if she is sick; I will carry out all the (unclear) and then bring vegetables from the market. I Any other person who helps in the home, let me hear from Isak. M4: (Unclear) even when we come back from school. You know when we are going to school, then come back from the... we do help them. On Saturday and holidays we go to field and help them with digging (unclear). I: What about bringing water from the... Are anyone of you supposed to bring water? Whether or not the sisters are there, do you help with the water? I'm going to stay in Torit, so I will find out. I will follow you and I will know if you have told the truth. Because this programme is going to follow boys also. To find out what they are doing. We are going to do a survey, so who of you goes to fetch water for the family? You also do that? That's very good. I'm very happy about that. T: He is talking of himself that in the home normally there is the condition that if the mother is sick he will take all the activities at home. He can go to the market and buy www.integrityresearch.com 188 the vegetables, and wash children, maybe go to fetch water; he'll do all things at home. And even when from the younger sisters and brothers, if one is sick he will take to the hospital and all that. And that's what he's doing. I: Now I want to put another question to all of you, and whoever is ready can answer. What are some of the problems that you boys have in this community? What problems you have? M5: I think that they don't have things or activities like playing football and all that. And also things like sanitation they are not there. I: Like what, an example? M5: Like toilets they don't have here in the area. What is stressing us here in the area, some boys they don't have good guidance, they cannot guide them in the school. And the unlucky the will not go to school and they will just loitering around in the area, and even sometimes they will become thieves and this is what is facing us. I2: Are they orphans, or what is their background? M5: Some boys have problems in this area. Some who have parents, their parents are poor and can't afford to pay to take them to school. This causes them to get involved in drinking and maybe to become thieves and all that. And also, some even are orphans. END OF TRANSCRIPTS www.integrityresearch.com 189 Registered in England No: 07321996